EDUCATIONAL INCUBATION & HATCHING CHAT THREAD, w/ Sally Sunshine Shipped Eggs

[Pensmaster]

Wow! 103 is scary. Too close to 104 for my liking. What stage of incubation are they in?
I had a friend, (actually the one who sold me his 3 aging Sportsman incubators) who used these incubators in his barn. He reported disparate results based on ambient temps.
For years, I incubated in my basement. (just the opposite of your barn environment) It is always cool down there year round. The incubators always had to work overtime. Right now I'm incubating in an unused upstairs bedroom. Now that it is hot up there, the incubator temps are very stable. There is an office in the basement I would like to convert to an incubation clean room with supplemental gas heat. After insulating the room, I can raise the room temp to 85+ fairly inexpensively that will alleviate the strain on the incubators. I can then create a temporary brooding space, perhaps elevated outside that room so I can immediately move the chicks out of hatcher trays for food and water whether I'm keeping them or shipping them.
For this last batch, I didn't even use the Premier 1 heat plate. Just put them in a box in the 90F room. They hatched a week ago and it is 84F up there now so I probably will never give them heat. It is cooling down for a week or so which will have me using the heat plate for Friday's hatch.

I have the heat plate going but sure don’t need it.

 

[aliciaplus3]

Foundation stock came from an Ameraucana breeder in Texas. The eggs are all ours laid in Colo. I have wondered if that shell porosity (not sure that's a word) issue is determined by where the hen is born or their current location. Incubator is in a room with no drafts and kept at about 72 deg. The oxygen issue may be the key. Exploring different incubator options also.
Thanks for the reply and the link.

I have 3 of the 360 incubators. I Love them as Hatchers or for someone needing s less expensive way to incubate. Thst being said I have always struggled some with the humidity control on them. Fill the small channel and the humidity jumps to 50%, sounds exactly like what the manufacturer suggest right? Yes But that high of humidity even here in very Dry Colorado at right under 6000 feet and half my eggs drown. Sigh, after a Lot of trial and error and more error as I read about folks running "dry" incubations and doing well, i have discovered that Most of my backyard eggs do best with humidy between 30 and 35% till lockdown then bump it to over 60% for hatching. Now If I add no water at all then the humidity (normaly) drops to about 10% also causing embryo deaths if left that dry for the entire incubation period. So with the 360 I often find myself adding a little water every Other day trying for an average of 30% humidity. While it's a doable thing I do really prefer my brinsea ovation ex 56 with humity pump so I can set the humidity on the dial and not worry. Now just because 30 to 35% works most of the time here does Not mean it works everytime. If I am incubating Very Dark eggs then I have to run drier so they loose enough moisture and very light or porous eggs need a little higher humidity. I really like this diagram to compare with

if when I candle at the marked days the air cell is a little small then I need to lower the humidity and if the sir cell is growing too fast or is s little big then I need a little more humidy.
I only run 4 or 5 incubators normally, right now only one is going. It takes time to figure out your best system. If it was me I would try some locally sourced eggs even s good mutt mix just to see if it's the incubation process or maybe the specific eggs you are trying. It sounds like they are very special eggs, might not hurt to try some less precious just for comparison????

 

[ChickenCanoe]

No I only have the white. I also have the Bielefelders and raised both at the same time. Bresse filled in real well Bielefelders were thin runts in comparison one pound lighter. Bielefelders also eat more food that any breed I’ve had.

@Pensmaster
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/american-white-bresse.1402145/

 

[Pensmaster]

@ChickenCanoe
Most eggs are developing. After a day and the 103 temps would they have blood rings yet?
There are a few but no more than normal for the White Cornish

 

[ChickenCanoe]

If it wasn't over 104.4 for any length of time, I wouldn't worry too much.
I don't worry till I have something to worry about.
I just stay away from 103 because it is too close from deadly, especially if the thermometer could be off.

 

[Madpolak]

I'm not sure about that either, whether egg shell composition is from the lineage of the bird or where they currently reside.
Porosity is a word.
Without inserting oxygen, I think the link has other suggestions on compensating.
I was considering moving to an elevation above 4'000 ft. and oxygen compensation is something I've been studying
[/QUOT

I have 3 of the 360 incubators. I Love them as Hatchers or for someone needing s less expensive way to incubate. Thst being said I have always struggled some with the humidity control on them. Fill the small channel and the humidity jumps to 50%, sounds exactly like what the manufacturer suggest right? Yes But that high of humidity even here in very Dry Colorado at right under 6000 feet and half my eggs drown. Sigh, after a Lot of trial and error and more error as I read about folks running "dry" incubations and doing well, i have discovered that Most of my backyard eggs do best with humidy between 30 and 35% till lockdown then bump it to over 60% for hatching. Now If I add no water at all then the humidity (normaly) drops to about 10% also causing embryo deaths if left that dry for the entire incubation period. So with the 360 I often find myself adding a little water every Other day trying for an average of 30% humidity. While it's a doable thing I do really prefer my brinsea ovation ex 56 with humity pump so I can set the humidity on the dial and not worry. Now just because 30 to 35% works most of the time here does Not mean it works everytime. If I am incubating Very Dark eggs then I have to run drier so they loose enough moisture and very light or porous eggs need a little higher humidity. I really like this diagram to compare with View attachment 2266728if when I candle at the marked days the air cell is a little small then I need to lower the humidity and if the sir cell is growing too fast or is s little big then I need a little more humidy.
I only run 4 or 5 incubators normally, right now only one is going. It takes time to figure out your best system. If it was me I would try some locally sourced eggs even s good mutt mix just to see if it's the incubation process or maybe the specific eggs you are trying. It sounds like they are very special eggs, might not hurt to try some less precious just for comparison????

Thanks so much. Kind of the reply I was looking for. Sounds like your situation is very close to mine here in Colorful Colorado!! I will try keeping my next hatch attempt in that humidity range. I have always worried about the dry hatch process because it's so dry here to begin with. Especially this year. Any issues with the temp on yours? I have to keep mine set at 110 deg + just to keep it at 99.5 deg on the Incutherms I put in the bator.

 

[aliciaplus3]

Thanks so much. Kind of the reply I was looking for. Sounds like your situation is very close to mine here in Colorful Colorado!! I will try keeping my next hatch attempt in that humidity range. I have always worried about the dry hatch process because it's so dry here to begin with. Especially this year. Any issues with the temp on yours? I have to keep mine set at 110 deg + just to keep it at 99.5 deg on the Incutherms I put in the bator.

All 3 of mine seem to run at the correct temp. Now you have me curious where you live... I am in montrose.

 

[Pensmaster]

The broodies have started

One of the hens just decided 2 days ago she’d help.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Thanks so much. Kind of the reply I was looking for. Sounds like your situation is very close to mine here in Colorful Colorado!! I will try keeping my next hatch attempt in that humidity range. I have always worried about the dry hatch process because it's so dry here to begin with. Especially this year. Any issues with the temp on yours? I have to keep mine set at 110 deg + just to keep it at 99.5 deg on the Incutherms I put in the bator.

A 10% hatch rate is very concerning, even at elevation.

Dead embryos from day 7-17 can have several causes.
According to the University of Florida they are as follows.
1. Improper incubator temperature, humidity, turning, ventilation. Low humidity increases abnormalities of aortic arches (13 days).
2. Contamination.
3. Nutritional deficiencies in the breeder flock-- riboflavin, vitamin B12, biotin, niacin, pyridoxine, pantothenic acid, phosphorus, boron, or linoleic acid

I feel that when proper humidity is a serious concern that a better approach would be to weigh eggs rather than focus on humidity. The goal with humidity is to achieve a specific weight loss. The most accurate way to achieve that is with a scale and not a hygrometer.
I will weigh when setting and weekly. You can make a chart to make sure you are losing about 0.65% per day regardless of which day you weigh for chicken eggs.
For other species, it is similar weight loss. About 13-15% during the entire incubation period. It is just the per day rate that will change.
A small pocket gram scale is sufficient and that's what I did for years but over the winter I bought a bigger scale so I could weigh whole trays of eggs as well as chicks and adult birds if necessary. The pocket gram scales I've used have been accurate and inexpensive.
If buying a larger scale, don't waste your money on the majority of kitchen scales you find at the likes of Target or Walmart. Those I've tried were basically junk with poor repeatability.
The one I bought was the My Weigh KD8000. It didn't break the bank but is amazingly accurate. I also bought a 10 gram calibration weight and it is spot on every time. When a 8000 gram capacity scale can accurately measure 10 grams with perfect repeatability, that is a good scale.
https://www.oldwillknottscales.com/my-weigh-kd8000.html

https://www.pasreform.com/en/knowledge/86/optimal-weight-loss-profiling-during-incubation
https://poultryperformanceplus.com/information-database/incubation/283-weight-loss-during-incubation
As for your hatch rate, it could be an elevation issue but after reading about your temperature settings, I think temperature rather than humidity is the likely problem.
The incutherm is supposed to be accurate to within +/- 1°F but given your results, it could be way off. It is either the thermometer or the incubator.
I've discovered 3 thermometers that are even more accurate and also won't break the bank.
For years, I recommended the Brinsea Spot Check (bought from Brinsea so you know it is authentic as there have been knockoffs).
I also love the speed and precision of the calibratable thermoworks RT301WA. Mine hasn't needed calibration.
https://www.thermoworks.com/RT301WA
The newest one I recommend if you have a smart phone is the Govee Bluetooth H5074 thermometer/hygrometer. Both features are incredibly accurate.
https://www.amazon.com/Govee-Thermometer-Hygrometer-Bluetooth-Temperature/dp/B07R586J37

I would start with temperature, then humidity by weighing, making sure the turning is adequate and verify ventilation. I've even gone so far as to use an aquarium air pump to bring in air but I don't know how much that will help in a thin air environment.
I hope all this helps.

All 3 of mine seem to run at the correct temp. Now you have me curious where you live... I am in montrose.

Pretty area. The last time I was in CO, I stayed in Fairplay (i.e. South Park) and skied in Monarch.

 

[Madpolak]

All 3 of mine seem to run at the correct temp. Now you have me curious where you live... I am in montrose.

Sedalia