EE hen unable to walk with runny yellow poo.

[rachel]

1) What type of bird , age and weight.
Just over 2 years, EE standard weight (doesn't seem to be losing any)

2) What is the behavior, exactly.
Very lethargic, unable to walk, opaque runny yolk-colored poop. When I tried to make her drink some ACV water she attempted to run away but looked like a very very drunk chicken falling from side to side and gave up after about 3 steps.

This exact same thing happened to her last year. separated her, gave her ACV used a gloved hand and oil, found an egg inside her, put oil all around it and it passed. She was still symptomatic after that for a few hours, but made a full recovery within 24 hours.

3) Is there any bleeding, injury, broken bones or other sign of trauma.
No.

4) What happened, if anything that you know of, that may have caused the situation.
The temp jumped to 105 today, so I'm wondering if she has a chronic condition or a predisposition to something that heat stress has caused to flare up?

5) What has the bird been eating and drinking, if at all.
Organic lay pellets, water. Didn't notice if she ate/drank this morning, but I think she was acting normal or I probably would have noticed.

6) How does the poop look? Normal? Bloody? Runny? etc.
Runny, opaque, pale yellow.

7) What has been the treatment you have administered so far?
Put on a lubed glove, felt for any egg-binding, felt nothing. Washed the runny poop off her but. I got a few sips of Apple cider vinegar water down her and separated her in a small pen inside the main chicken pen.

8 ) What is your intent as far as treatment? For example, do you want to treat completely yourself, or do you need help in stabilizing the bird til you can get to a vet?
I want to self treat. If she passes, I would like to get a necropsy assuming it isn't outrageously expensive, I haven't looked into that here in AZ yet.

9) If you have a picture of the wound or condition, please post it. It may help.
10) Describe the housing/bedding in use
Outside, dirt and straw. Shared with two muscovy ducks but it's very hot and dry so nothing stays damp.

Also, as a side note, almost 1.5 years ago I lost her 9 month old "sister" (another EE I bought at the same time, same place) that had never laid an egg, I assumed she was internally laying, but did not autopsy.

 

[kinnip]

Sounds like worms. There are a number of worming options. You should do some searches to decide what's right for you. I like to use Ivomec Eprinex. It's a cattle wormer. It is not approved for use in chickens. Use your judgment. 10 drops in the mouth, no more.

 

[Glenda L Heywood]

I would say that she may have some type of E.coli
and with the high temp outside can't get straightened out

Some tips on treating this in your bird from a friend of mine
Nathalie Ross who as a vet tech learnd this treatment

First and foremost the thing to do is to feed her
the probiotic wet mash
E.coli is something chickens do get
Now, anytime you have any gut problems, the health of the beneficial bacteria that should naturally occur in the gut should be considered.

It's usually when the populations of those good
bacterial decrease that we see an INcreased in bad bacteria, thus gut illness. The good
bacteria literally crowd out bad bacteria, and some even secrete substances
that ward off over abundances of bad bacteria.

(1 So during illness, and really any time there is
stress, you'll want to increase the number of good bacteria in your bird's gut. You can do
this quite easily through the use of probiotics
available over the counter, and some even at the grocery store.

(2 In this case, with a
probability of E. coli, you'll want to find a
"probiotic" that contains live cultures of
Lactobacilus (most commonly lactobacilus
acidophilus) as well as B. bifidum.

Bifidum is one of those bacteria that secretes stuff to ward off bad bacteria, in this case it specifically wards off E.coli.

Third, nutrition during illness:
You can mix it up with boiled/mashed egg yolk for a combination of good high protein for healing,
super nutrition from the egg, and the good bacteria from the yogurt. Plus, this treat is soft and easily dissolved.

Fourth vitamin E.
Vitamin E acts specifically against overdoses of E.coli. I'd use the oil capsules. ONE 400 MG PEOPLE vIT e DAILY TILL HELAED.
You can put it in a small bit of food if you
KNOW that bit of food will be eaten entirely.

When birds are sick, their crops/gizzards slow down, so it's really easy for their crops to back up and get impacted.

If you don't think your bird will eat yogurt (some dont, some love it),

then you can hedge your bets and pick up a non-dairy human probiotic from the human health food store.
You'll find them in the remedies for yeast infections. Liquids are easiest to use, though
you can crush tablets if you absolutely have to do.

Be sure to read the label to see
that it says that it contains both acidophilus (aka lactobacilus) as well as bifidum.
Nathalie Ross provided this excerp

Glenda L Heywood
suggests
natural probiotic for one bird
3 tbsp of dry crumblesa
6 tbsp of any mind of milk
1 tbsp of yoguart
mix well and feed twice a day till bird is better

read Nathalies advise also as she knows the right way to go
you can email me PM for further help

 

[rachel]

I thought worms would cause her to lose weight and have a gradual decline, this was sudden onset. Also, I'm EXTREMELY hesitant about using wormers for egg production. Obviously the eggs' organic factor would be nulled forever, but more importantly I'm not convinced that the eggs would be something I'd want to eat at all. The health of my bird would be paramount, so if it came down to worming as a last resort, I would consider it. Respectfully though, I don't think it's worms.

Glenda: The E. coli thing does make some sense to me. I've been trying to get her to eat yogurt, she's turning out to not be the yogurt eating type. I'm going to try mixing it with food and run down your list of suggestions. Thank you so much for this info, I appreciate it very much. I will update with her progress. Right now she's just laying down with her eyes closed and breathing pretty hard. Not looking great, but hopefully she'll make a turnaround.

 

[kinnip]

This is a good resource where poo is in question.

 

[rachel]

I can't get her to eat anything at all. It would seem prudent to give the rest of the flock probiotics, yes?

Thanks for the link kinnip.

 

[Glenda L Heywood]

I also think you need to go and get the liquid calcium pills for humans and give her a 1000 mg twice a day
I think that you can get her to swallow by putting the pill to the back of the throat and holding the beaks together and stroking her throat
she is probably having internal absorption of the eggs and will not lay again
she would need high calcium consumption to get the body to try and put the eggs in the tract
then again she may never lay again but at her age this is a problem
if you can get the pills down her
and get her to eat the probiotic wet mash and ACV water she will come around
I doubt she is wormy

there is a herbal worm medicine
from health food store
Jeruselum Oak leaves and tops
brewed as a tea

1 tsp three times a day with tsp of honey

it is for people and chickens
as you are just interested in individual chickens
you could make it ( mix with honey)
and use the straw to draw it up and hold it with your finger till putting straw in chickens throat
then let it go

chemical wormers generally do go out of the body of the chickens and in 10 days to two weeks can eat the egg
or use Diatomaceous Earth daily at 2% of amt of feed used mix and it will knick the soft shelled worms that then dehydrate and become protein for the chicken

keep us posted

 

[rachel]

Roxie (the EE) is maybe a tiny bit better. She still can't seem to walk but she is at least perking her head up and seems a little more alert. I can't get her to eat much and I couldn't get her to take the vitamin e or the liquid calcium until I cut them open and squeezed the contents into a cherry tomato, then she had no problem eating both.

I'm thinking about stuffing cherry tomatoes with yogurt too, using a needleless syringe.

I noticed this morning that her poop is a very dark green now. Is that bile?

 

[Iowa Roo Mom]

*bump* Do let us know! I love EE's and have a gorgeous EE roo myself!

 

[rachel]

Well, still not a lot of improvement, she's about the same as she was this morning. She's not really eating, and I can't seem to do anything to convince her to. I'm going to fill some cherry tomatoes with yogurt and give those to her and also try and get her to eat her regular feed.