EE or ameraucana?

[cashdl]

Quote:
Actually not quite correct. The araucana was created in South America from two separate types of chickens one laid a blue egg and one did not. They were inadvertantly introduced at the worlds fair as a new breed of chicken. According to paintings and drawings from then, they were rumpless, tufted ( not ear muffs ), and laid blue eggs. When people saw how pretty the eggs were the demand for them became very high. Because the blue egg gene is dominant they can be bred to a number of different breeds and still retain the blue eggs, when bred to tan or brown egg layers the eggs become green and greenish brown.

The term easter egger was from an article actually about real araucanas not cross breeds and they were called that because of their beautiful eggs. Hatcheries started selling cross breeds after obtaining a few real araucana and seeing how easy the cross breeds were to breed and still maintain the egg color, versus the araucana which is very difficult to breed. People didn't and to some extent still don't care if they are buying the real thing they merely want the colored eggs. By the late 60's there was lots of versions of the araucana and no real standard, and no one could agree on a standard untill the 70's. Then the standard of perfection became what it is today for the araucana, and those that still had that original type started breeding towards that.

The gene for Tufts is fatal in two copies, while the muffs does not have that fatal gene.

Try to take several yellow skinned green egg laying EEs and breed them to the ameraucana standard of perfection and you will see why ameraucana people get upset. The ameraucana is a white skinned bird that comes in definate colors and lays blue eggs. The ee is a mostly yellow skinned bird hence the green legs which you cant get on an ameraucana, and it can lay blue eggs ( some definately a better color blue than araucana or ameraucana), green eggs, white eggs, brown eggs, or tanish pink eggs. There is no consistancy. It is not a breed.

That would be like me saying I have black labs. My dogs parents were chocolate lab on the fathers side and somewhere on the mothers side there was a coon hound mixed in with the black labs. My dogs are black with red markings. While they are parentage wise maybe 3/4 lab, they really do not fit the standard, both in color and body shape. But why not sell any puppies I have a pure lab if they are black? Because they are not lab, they are a mix and to anyone who knows labs its obvious. Kinda the same thing with chickens. There is nothing wrong with EE's, there is something wrong with thinking they are inferrior to ameraucana. They are a neat chicken. They are not a breed, but they are a neat type of chicken, that is easily recognizable.

Here are a couple of my rumpless tufted araucana.

Lanae

 

[klf73]

great post Lanae

 

[FarmerGrant011]

both LOL

 

[pinkwindsong]

so one way of telling a Americauna from and EE is the legs.. if they are green/blue legs and yellow skin they are EE's if yellow legs and white skin they are an americauna? the rumpless are aracuanas not americaunas which have tail feathers..?
genetic and bloodlines can be very confusing especialy when still learning

thanks )O(
Pink

 

[Chickey chickey's mom]

a very pretty EE . I love mine. I'm planning to breed them to a purebred Ameraucana next year when I have an Ameraucana roo.

 

[klf73]

Quote:
if you get them anywhere but a breeder they are ee's. If I ever sell birds/eggs I will join the breeds associations. I do know of quite a few "breeders" of "ameraucana", all original stock can be traced back to a hatchery, and they get mad if you tell them they aren't true ameraucana because that's "what they bought from the hatchery". I always ask for pics of breeder stock to see for myself what they have. Also asking where they got their flock from helps also. My lines came from Smith, Ribbeck and Ramey(all different colors), all from out of state.
I know I have sold teenagers local but they were just to backyard flocks, they just wanted the pretty eggs for themselves. If someone wants to know the history of what they have I will educate them. This is definitely a case of buyer beware....

 

[dretd]

Quote:
You have a very good post! I do have a lot of respect for breeders--they have put a lot of time, energy and money in to their breeds and appreciate their efforts very much.

I think that I would like to add another perspective as well to the lab analogy. All other species that have breed registries that I am aware of, register individual animals from that breed. The breeder has registered dogs and then registers the litter then the new puppy owner registers their individual dog. So your lab example isn't quite the same as a chicken registry where they show animals based on Phenotype--what they look like and if they meet breed standards vs genotype--they are registered because they are genetically descended from registered dog. They are judged based on how closely they conform to the breed standard and wont place if they do not' If that breeder in your example had bred to a coon hound those pups could not have been register-able and would not have been identified as purebred labs but as lab crosses because they are not registered.

Another example: Quarter Horses. If there is white above the knee or hock they are no longer able to be registered as quarter horses even if both parents are purebred and registered. So now the Paint Registry is born and will take those babies and register them as Paints. Doesn't make the babies 'mutts' which is what the Ameraucana breeders say the 'Americaunas' are. It does sound pretty snobby to my ears. Many of these hatcheries are much, much older than the breed standard is and were not in the loop when the breed standard was established.

Again, I don't want to be disrespectful of the breeders out there, because they have enormous dedication for their breeds and I appreciate their efforts greatly! I just think that folks should think twice before to be so adamant about their breed that they are in turn disrespectful of another's animals and say 'oh, its just a mutt' when its obvious that it is an Ameraucana cross. I do like the term Easter Egger but find the term Mutt to be non-descriptive at best and pretty snobby at the worst.

 

[klf73]

I don't call them mutts, and even if someone called my ee a mutt I don't care, seriously. I think people , in general, are just a bit too sensitive sometimes. The analogy with showing birds. you are right, there are no registries, just what is put in front of you. Someone that would do that would only do harm to themselves though. They would not be able to replicate it, the next generation will throw abnormalities. So they will just destroy their reputation in my opinion. If someone had a gorgeous bird and I wanted their lines. One of two things would happen. they would use other birds from the flock to sell me stock from and they won't be what I am "looking" for(if I am looking to something up to the standard of what was shown, or close) OR they do use this bird to sell me eggs and the funky genes the chicken is hiding come out. Either way it is a lose lose situation for the breeder as you bet I will tell everyone of my experience with that breeder. Some crosses aren't always noticeable on the F1, but the F2 all sorts of funky things come out, ask anyone who has a project.....

actually, the ee's from hatcheries are usually mutts. I say that because they cross to production breeds(usually white layer so egg color usually stays blue), hence makes them a mutt, mix or whatever. Just cuz they lay a blue egg doesnt' make them a non standardized color of ameraucana. I have seen plenty with single combs or other non ameraucana traits, which if they were a mixed color ameraucana they wouldn't have those....
My ee's aren't mutts, they did not come from a hatchery, but from my own stock. Each parent is pure ameraucana but they free range together.....I also never have single combs and mine ALWAYS lay a blue egg...