Egg bound, infection, something else?

[Breezed]

Here's a little history first. I'm in Naples, FL. I don't know what type of hen this is. Previous caretakers said she had appeared to be egg bound. This was probably two months ago or more. They took her to the vet and no egg was found or any sign of her being egg bound but they gave her an antibiotic shot. She got better. That's when we acquired her along with 6 other hens. This was several weeks ago and all has been great until 2 days ago she started walking with her butt and tail feathers lowered to the ground. She walks a little slower and she seems to be sitting/dust bathing more than what is usual. She isn't exactly lethargic though. She is roaming the yard and grazing with the flock, just slower. She was also drinking when I turned the hose on. She seemed a little warm when I picked her up. I tried to feel for a lump and her back end is just squishy like a water balloon, not sure if it's normal. I tried to feel in her vent for an egg and I don't feel anything. There seemed to be a little clear/whitish mucus below the vent though but not in it. I originally thought it was just cast off from a nasty dropping. I don't know. Anyway, I am being long winded sorry. I soaked her in a warm bath for a bit, now she is dry, and hanging out in the bathroom on some towels. She is very docile and friendly anyway. I took a couple photos and quick video of her vent after the bath but I can't seem to load the video. I have no idea if it's normal. I've never had to look at one before. It's not red or inflamed. It does have some yellowing of the skin around the vent, just inside really. But I don't mean like mucus or pus. When I lift her tail feather, she sucks her vent in/out...is that normal?
Any help as to what you think is going on would be greatly appreciated.
I've had chickens for a few years now and except for wildlife attacks and one round of fowl pox, we have never had a sick hen.

 

[PirateGirl]

Awe poor girl. I went through something similar recently. I learned that if in fact a hen is egg bound usually the egg is within the last 2 inches of the reproductive tract, so close to the vent/exit. If you insert a finger and cannot feel an egg right there, probably not exactly egg bound. There are other problems with the reproductive tract that can cause a hen to act this way including things like internal laying, which can lead to infection, or infection in general. Since your hen went through this before and was treated with antibiotics and showed improvement I would suspect some sort of infection of the reproductive tract. Antibiotics could potentially help again. Unfortunately, the real question is what is causing this to happen? If she is laying internally it will likely repeat and may or may not be able to be resolved for good. I hope others can offer more advice.

 

[Aunt Angus]

That's what I was thinking: internal laying. Has she been laying at all recently?

 

[Hen Pen Jem]

Greetings Breezed,

It seems your hen is suffering from a reproductive issue. Her stance is showing a serious reproductive issue. It could be an infection of some sort. Can you upload a photo of her most recent poop?

The swelling around her back end is from a fluid that the body produces, to rid itself of toxins. It is called ascites.

The infection from when she was with the other keeper, may have lingered causing Salpingitis. Perhaps they didn't continue the antibiotic course long enough, or the infection was not susceptible to the antibiotic used. Or, this could be a new infection, or tumor(s), internal laying. Only a CBC test and/or ultrasound can tell you if the chicken has an infection or possible tumor. Tumors of the reproductive system in hens is common. Most times, the exact cause of the ascites, is not known till the hen passes away and a necropsy is done by a vet.

Caring for the hen with a reproductive condition is tedious. Some hens can recover with correct care, I have had only one make a full recovery. For most, your care will give them quality of life, during their final year. Some can live on for 1 or 2 years, but the average time of survival has been 6 months to a year, for my hens.

Here are my notes on caring for the hen with ascites:

Handling the bird to medicate or feed manually - use a towel to wrap the bird, then support the feet with one hand, set the bird on your lap, with their feet between your thighs. The hen's chest and rear will rest on your thighs. Keep the hen calm by talking softly and stroking the ears or cheeks.

Handling the bird for bathing/soaking - place the bird's chest on your forearm and slide your hand under the belly for support, hold the hen close to you, as it will try to flap its wings. Or, you can tie a long scarf around the hen to hold the wings. Always support the hen's chest with your hand while bathing.

Treatments:
Epsom salt soaks, 10-15 minutes, 1 to 2 times a week for the first week or two, will comfort, clean and helps as a mild detox. Then, keep the hen's vent clean so she doesn't develop vent gleet. This can be done easily, with a squeezable bottle, filled with soapy water. Squirt the vent till poop is off, then, gently pat dry, blow dry during cold weather.

Manage inflamation - "The Rub - Arnica Cream" is best for external inflammation, but you can use other brands of Arnica cream. Apply each evening, on the belly, around vent and any bald spots, helps reduce pain, swelling and soothes.

40 mg. Aspirin, every 12 hours, to reduce swelling, reduce pain or discomfort. (Use low dose 80 mg. tablets, then split with a pill splitter. Food and water should follow to buffer the intestines.) Course is 10 days.

Antibiotic course:
A broad-spectrum antibiotic each day should be administered. The course is 10 days. I prefer Baytril (Enrofloxacin). Because the hen's immune system is weak, evident by the presence of ascites, in the case of a tumor, an antibiotic will protect her from secondary infection, and in the case of EYP, take care of any infection that is already brewing. Internal layers can also benefit. But, if an egg collapses in the coelomic cavity, then the hen will die within 24 hours. I've had this happen to a hen, as well.

Crop Issues:
Some hens will develop crop issues due to illness. This complicates their recovery if left untreated for more than a day, so, be vigilant.

Environment:
Some hens, may always be a little swollen with ascites, even after recovery. But, quality of life can be increased by providing accommodations.

We placed little ramps and tree stumps around the yard to make it easier for the hen to follow the flock. Exercise is important for these hens.

The hen may or may not, be able to fly up on to the perch, so if you want her to perch with the flock, you'll have to help her up. A safety net under the perch can be used to prevent falling off. Then, you'll have to help the hen down each morning.

Rupture of the belly is possible and is lethal. This usually happens when the hen jumps up or down from high places. Ascite swelling may also cause a hernia to develop, pushing the intestines close to the skin.

It's safer for the hen to sleep on the floor of the coop, with cover overhead so she doesn't get pooped on. Or, a small covered dog crate is good for this. Or, lower the perches to no more than 12 - 15 inches above the floor. I use a small dog crate with a grass mat and towel or sheet covering.

Roosters - The hen can no longer breed. A rooster, will unintentionally kill the hen with ascites, just with his weight on her back. Being chased by the rooster can cause the hen to fatally injure herself. The rooster doesn't know the hen is now unable to breed. So, of course if you want your hen to live longer, you'll have to manage the rooster. I put my rooster out of the pen, regardless of whether it is breeding season or not. And, it doesn't matter if the hen has healed from her ascite swelling. Her health will always be compromised, due to the original cause. Remember she is in remission, not cured. You cannot ever trust that a rooster will not jump on the hen. Many times just the strange waddling walk of the hen can bring attention from the rooster!

Diet:
It is not uncommon for the hen with ascites to go off feed. In that case, you should feed them cooked meals consisting of a carbohydrate: cooked grains, potatoes sweet or plain, cooked corn, Vegetables: chopped greens, diced cucumber, cooked frozen mixed vegies etc. Protein: cooked minced meats, egg, tofu, salmon, etc. Fruit: diced grape, apple, etc.

If the hen stops eating entirely, then, you'll have to feed her manually. A baby bird replacement meal, or feed mixed with water, then pureed in a blender will also do. I prefer my recipe using a hemp protein supplement as a meal replacement.


This is a huge subject, and I have been through it countless times. But, I am giving you some of my notes in hopes that they will be of some use to you. I also use herbs and supplements to nurse my chickens back to health. I will share that information with should you decide you'd like it.

Other members will have advice, please consider these too.

God Bless

 

[PirateGirl]

 

[Breezed]

That's what I was thinking: internal laying. Has she been laying at all recently?

She has not laid since we have had her...maybe 3-4 weeks.

 

[Breezed]

Greetings Breezed,

It seems your hen is suffering from a reproductive issue. Her stance is showing a serious reproductive issue. It could be an infection of some sort. Can you upload a photo of her most recent poop?

The swelling around her back end is from a fluid that the body produces, to rid itself of toxins. It is called ascites.

The infection from when she was with the other keeper, may have lingered causing Salpingitis. Perhaps they didn't continue the antibiotic course long enough, or the infection was not susceptible to the antibiotic used. Or, this could be a new infection, or tumor(s), internal laying. Only a CBC test and/or ultrasound can tell you if the chicken has an infection or possible tumor. Tumors of the reproductive system in hens is common. Most times, the exact cause of the ascites, is not known till the hen passes away and a necropsy is done by a vet.

Caring for the hen with a reproductive condition is tedious. Some hens can recover with correct care, I have had only one make a full recovery. For most, your care will give them quality of life, during their final year. Some can live on for 1 or 2 years, but the average time of survival has been 6 months to a year, for my hens.

Here are my notes on caring for the hen with ascites:

Handling the bird to medicate or feed manually - use a towel to wrap the bird, then support the feet with one hand, set the bird on your lap, with their feet between your thighs. The hen's chest and rear will rest on your thighs. Keep the hen calm by talking softly and stroking the ears or cheeks.

Handling the bird for bathing/soaking - place the bird's chest on your forearm and slide your hand under the belly for support, hold the hen close to you, as it will try to flap its wings. Or, you can tie a long scarf around the hen to hold the wings. Always support the hen's chest with your hand while bathing.

Treatments:
Epsom salt soaks, 10-15 minutes, 1 to 2 times a week for the first week or two, will comfort, clean and helps as a mild detox. Then, keep the hen's vent clean so she doesn't develop vent gleet. This can be done easily, with a squeezable bottle, filled with soapy water. Squirt the vent till poop is off, then, gently pat dry, blow dry during cold weather.

Manage inflamation - "The Rub - Arnica Cream" is best for external inflammation, but you can use other brands of Arnica cream. Apply each evening, on the belly, around vent and any bald spots, helps reduce pain, swelling and soothes.

40 mg. Aspirin, every 12 hours, to reduce swelling, reduce pain or discomfort. (Use low dose 80 mg. tablets, then split with a pill splitter. Food and water should follow to buffer the intestines.) Course is 10 days.

Antibiotic course:
A broad-spectrum antibiotic each day should be administered. The course is 10 days. I prefer Baytril (Enrofloxacin). Because the hen's immune system is weak, evident by the presence of ascites, in the case of a tumor, an antibiotic will protect her from secondary infection, and in the case of EYP, take care of any infection that is already brewing. Internal layers can also benefit. But, if an egg collapses in the coelomic cavity, then the hen will die within 24 hours. I've had this happen to a hen, as well.

Crop Issues:
Some hens will develop crop issues due to illness. This complicates their recovery if left untreated for more than a day, so, be vigilant.

Environment:
Some hens, may always be a little swollen with ascites, even after recovery. But, quality of life can be increased by providing accommodations.

We placed little ramps and tree stumps around the yard to make it easier for the hen to follow the flock. Exercise is important for these hens.

The hen may or may not, be able to fly up on to the perch, so if you want her to perch with the flock, you'll have to help her up. A safety net under the perch can be used to prevent falling off. Then, you'll have to help the hen down each morning.

Rupture of the belly is possible and is lethal. This usually happens when the hen jumps up or down from high places. Ascite swelling may also cause a hernia to develop, pushing the intestines close to the skin.

It's safer for the hen to sleep on the floor of the coop, with cover overhead so she doesn't get pooped on. Or, a small covered dog crate is good for this. Or, lower the perches to no more than 12 - 15 inches above the floor. I use a small dog crate with a grass mat and towel or sheet covering.

Roosters - The hen can no longer breed. A rooster, will unintentionally kill the hen with ascites, just with his weight on her back. Being chased by the rooster can cause the hen to fatally injure herself. The rooster doesn't know the hen is now unable to breed. So, of course if you want your hen to live longer, you'll have to manage the rooster. I put my rooster out of the pen, regardless of whether it is breeding season or not. And, it doesn't matter if the hen has healed from her ascite swelling. Her health will always be compromised, due to the original cause. Remember she is in remission, not cured. You cannot ever trust that a rooster will not jump on the hen. Many times just the strange waddling walk of the hen can bring attention from the rooster!

Diet:
It is not uncommon for the hen with ascites to go off feed. In that case, you should feed them cooked meals consisting of a carbohydrate: cooked grains, potatoes sweet or plain, cooked corn, Vegetables: chopped greens, diced cucumber, cooked frozen mixed vegies etc. Protein: cooked minced meats, egg, tofu, salmon, etc. Fruit: diced grape, apple, etc.

If the hen stops eating entirely, then, you'll have to feed her manually. A baby bird replacement meal, or feed mixed with water, then pureed in a blender will also do. I prefer my recipe using a hemp protein supplement as a meal replacement.


This is a huge subject, and I have been through it countless times. But, I am giving you some of my notes in hopes that they will be of some use to you. I also use herbs and supplements to nurse my chickens back to health. I will share that information with should you decide you'd like it.

Other members will have advice, please consider these too.

God Bless

Very detailed. Thank you for the notes. This will come in very handy in the future as well.

I did give her a soak in a warm bath but didn't know if Epsom salt was ok so didn't include it this time. I will next time though. She sat in the bath very well. Her vent wasn't dirty except for the one spot of mucus I had found earlier in the day. I still cleaned it in the bath though. I gave her a small dose of Liquamycin...dosage from a post on this forum but I'd have to find it again because now I can't remember and I need to know for the next time. Do you know? If not I'll go searching again. I had to leave home so I dried her well and gave her some water with a vitamin/electrolyte powder mixed in a tiny bit of food. When I returned a few hours later, she had walked around a bit, pooped a few times and it all looked normal to me so I flushed it before thinking to take a photo. Once I was back in the room with her, she immediately started drinking and eating though. When she was done I took her back outside to the flock. She grazed well and got water several times, walking slow and bottom down but still energetic following her favorite sister hen. We just lost our rooster last week to a bobcat attack so no worries on mating her. She has never laid an egg since we have had her...3-4 weeks. I've asked my husband to contact the previous caretakers and find out when this last issue occurred and if they know the last time she laid. I put her to bed with the 2 bantams that came with her, mainly because it is a smaller coop and she won't fall. I'm trying to think of anything to tell but not sure.

 

[Breezed]

Awe poor girl. I went through something similar recently. I learned that if in fact a hen is egg bound usually the egg is within the last 2 inches of the reproductive tract, so close to the vent/exit. If you insert a finger and cannot feel an egg right there, probably not exactly egg bound. There are other problems with the reproductive tract that can cause a hen to act this way including things like internal laying, which can lead to infection, or infection in general. Since your hen went through this before and was treated with antibiotics and showed improvement I would suspect some sort of infection of the reproductive tract. Antibiotics could potentially help again. Unfortunately, the real question is what is causing this to happen? If she is laying internally it will likely repeat and may or may not be able to be resolved for good. I hope others can offer more advice.

Thank you. I did give her antibiotics, a warm soak, and some vitamin/electrolyte powder in her water and kept her inside for several hours. She did eat and drink some and pooped normally. I am also worried about it recurring and not being able to resolve it.

 

[Eggcessive]

I agree that your hen has the posture of a hen with reproductive problems or ascites. Most of the reproductive disorders do not have good outcomes. The antibiotics do not always help, but does not harm to try them again. Amoxicillin (FishMox available online) and Baytril (available here: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/baytril-enrofloxacin-sources.959119/ )are 2 that some people try or that vets may prescribe.

 

[Breezed]

I agree that your hen has the posture of a hen with reproductive problems or ascites. Most of the reproductive disorders do not have good outcomes. The antibiotics do not always help, but does not harm to try them again. Amoxicillin (FishMox available online) and Baytril (available here: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/baytril-enrofloxacin-sources.959119/ )are 2 that some people try or that vets may prescribe.

Thank you for the information. I guess we'll see how she does this round. If it doesn't improve in a day or so or recurs again, we'll take her to the vet.