Quote:
I know I'm very glad I tried it.
I know I'm very glad I tried it.
Egg Carton Hatching Method Feedback *UPDATE*Tried It*Relults*
- Thread starter ChicknThief
- Start date
Guys .... read the thread
I explained very clearly why I suspect this is *busy work*.
The main point of hatching eggs in cartons is to prevent the rolling and banging the get from early hatching chicks. There are other, minor reasons too.
My point is that no one has demonstrated any evidence that the eggs suffer, in any way, from this rolling around. On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence that they suffer no harm whatsoever.
I explained that twice
I explained very clearly why I suspect this is *busy work*.
The main point of hatching eggs in cartons is to prevent the rolling and banging the get from early hatching chicks. There are other, minor reasons too.
My point is that no one has demonstrated any evidence that the eggs suffer, in any way, from this rolling around. On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence that they suffer no harm whatsoever.
I explained that twice
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I did read your thread...more than once and I still don't know what you mean by "busy work" ....it's no more work and I'd say it's been less for me to hatch in the cartons than to have them rolling around and constantly checking to see if someone is "glued" upside down to the wire. I have lost chicks that I'm pretty sure didn't make it out because of being disoriented from being knocked around. To say that letting them be rolled around is the natural way to hatch I strongly disagree. They aren't being bowled around under the hen....she's got them nestled under her pretty tight and they certainly aren't being rolled around a wire mesh floor. I've been hatching quite a few years and I wish I'd have started doing it this way a long time ago. I never did think that all that knocking around was good for them.
I did read your thread...more than once and I still don't know what you mean by "busy work" ....it's no more work and I'd say it's been less for me to hatch in the cartons than to have them rolling around and constantly checking to see if someone is "glued" upside down to the wire. I have lost chicks that I'm pretty sure didn't make it out because of being disoriented from being knocked around. To say that letting them be rolled around is the natural way to hatch I strongly disagree. They aren't being bowled around under the hen....she's got them nestled under her pretty tight and they certainly aren't being rolled around a wire mesh floor. I've been hatching quite a few years and I wish I'd have started doing it this way a long time ago. I never did think that all that knocking around was good for them.
I have been tracking results using the egg carton method and although not scientific in approach, I am comfortable saying the method works based on first hand "evidence" from people trying the method.
The "busy work" comment gave me a good laugh.
It's quite easy and actually makes cleaning easier too..... anyway, I'm not quite sure what the main point of hatching eggs in cartons is except to get a better hatch rate!
Twigg says that "no one has demonstrated any evidence that the eggs suffer, in any way, from this rolling around. On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence that they suffer no harm whatsoever."
What is that evidence? What evidence do you have that shows they suffer no harm whatsoever from being bowled around? I would LOVE to see that evidence. If you are going to use the commercial hatcheries that have 200 eggs in a drawer..... how does that provide evidence? I'm quite sure the commercial hatcheries have sufficient eggs to FILL the drawers which prevents the eggs from rolling around. Eggs under a hen certainly don't get rolled around.
Here is a thought for you to ponder. Why do we stop turning the eggs on day 18? Why don't we keep turning them until they hatch? It's so the chicks can position themselves to hatch. Now we stop turning them and then the first chick hatches early and bowls them every which way. And we wonder why our hatch rates are so low. If there were eveidence that shows there was no harm rolling eggs why would we stop turning on day 18?
The evidence I have is that I went from extremely poor hatch rates with fully grown chicks dead in the shell to over 90% every time with the egg carton method. Call it "busy work" or what ever you want to call it.... the results speak for themselves. And not with just one member but a variety of members have provided "evidence" based on first hand knowledge that the "busy work" pays off. Use the method or don't but to attempt to say it's busy work without testing it yourself is rather absurd. I will not hatch any other way.
The "busy work" comment gave me a good laugh.
Twigg says that "no one has demonstrated any evidence that the eggs suffer, in any way, from this rolling around. On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence that they suffer no harm whatsoever."
What is that evidence? What evidence do you have that shows they suffer no harm whatsoever from being bowled around? I would LOVE to see that evidence. If you are going to use the commercial hatcheries that have 200 eggs in a drawer..... how does that provide evidence? I'm quite sure the commercial hatcheries have sufficient eggs to FILL the drawers which prevents the eggs from rolling around. Eggs under a hen certainly don't get rolled around.
Here is a thought for you to ponder. Why do we stop turning the eggs on day 18? Why don't we keep turning them until they hatch? It's so the chicks can position themselves to hatch. Now we stop turning them and then the first chick hatches early and bowls them every which way. And we wonder why our hatch rates are so low. If there were eveidence that shows there was no harm rolling eggs why would we stop turning on day 18?
The evidence I have is that I went from extremely poor hatch rates with fully grown chicks dead in the shell to over 90% every time with the egg carton method. Call it "busy work" or what ever you want to call it.... the results speak for themselves. And not with just one member but a variety of members have provided "evidence" based on first hand knowledge that the "busy work" pays off. Use the method or don't but to attempt to say it's busy work without testing it yourself is rather absurd. I will not hatch any other way.
I am going to throw a kink in here. I know most of you stop turning your eggs at 18 days. I had only one sportman's for over 10 years before I lost it and my house in Hurricane Rita. I never turned it off of rotate. I used paper cartons. I found a feed store that sold paper cartons that held 2 1/2 dozen eggs. They where less than $1.00 each. I lost very few chicks due to being stuck in the egg shell or piping out the wrong end. I would check the eggs at hatching time. If any where piping low are wrong I would simply put it on it's side in the carton. I know that most of you stop rotating at 18 day. But I would set all eggs that I had at the end of the week. So I had a very staggered hatch so I could not stop my tray from rotating without messing up the rest of my hatch. I have hatched for over 20 years. Started with and old metal one that my dad had used for years. I don't remember the brand. Those I rolled until they started to break through the shell.
I don't have automatic turners and my last two hatches have been in the cartons from day one. Simply tilting the cartons from side to side on pieces of styrofoam has certainly been easier and much less time consuming than hand turning.
I have had fewer chicks dead in the shell without pipping since I went to this method but that may be coincidence or it may be due to not being rolled around.
The cartons do take up slightly more room in the incubator and hatcher so it would decrease the number of eggs I could set at one time. That is not an issue for me. I could add a shelf for more eggs if I wanted.
I do think it is easier to clean up after the hatch with the cartons.
If I were to hatch without the cartons again, I think I would build a frame to hold the eggs close together like a full drawer in a commercial hatcher (or a deep nest under a hen)
I have had fewer chicks dead in the shell without pipping since I went to this method but that may be coincidence or it may be due to not being rolled around.
The cartons do take up slightly more room in the incubator and hatcher so it would decrease the number of eggs I could set at one time. That is not an issue for me. I could add a shelf for more eggs if I wanted.
I do think it is easier to clean up after the hatch with the cartons.
If I were to hatch without the cartons again, I think I would build a frame to hold the eggs close together like a full drawer in a commercial hatcher (or a deep nest under a hen)
Lots of speculation and guesswork in those last two replies, and I'll deal with it.
First off, please let me remind you all that I have stated, more than once, that if y'all wanna use egg cartons I have no problem. I do have a problem with you suggesting it is a good thing to do without evidence.
First off, please let me remind you all that I have stated, more than once, that if y'all wanna use egg cartons I have no problem. I do have a problem with you suggesting it is a good thing to do without evidence.
The "busy work" comment gave me a good laugh. roll It's quite easy and actually makes cleaning easier too..... anyway, I'm not quite sure what the main point of hatching eggs in cartons is except to get a better hatch rate!
Glad you had a laugh .... now laugh at this. I acknowledged that there were other, minor, reasons for using cartons. There is NO evidence that hatch rates improve that has been presented in this thread.
Glad you had a laugh .... now laugh at this. I acknowledged that there were other, minor, reasons for using cartons. There is NO evidence that hatch rates improve that has been presented in this thread.
What is that evidence? What evidence do you have that shows they suffer no harm whatsoever from being bowled around? I would LOVE to see that evidence. If you are going to use the commercial hatcheries that have 200 eggs in a drawer..... how does that provide evidence? I'm quite sure the commercial hatcheries have sufficient eggs to FILL the drawers which prevents the eggs from rolling around. Eggs under a hen certainly don't get rolled around.
Why would I not use commercial hatcheries as an example? You are wrong. They quite deliberately remove all the clears precisely to give the chicks more room when they hatch. Hatch rates are well over 90%, and the buffeting of the unhatched eggs is substantial. So, you are wrong .... did I already say that?
Why would I not use commercial hatcheries as an example? You are wrong. They quite deliberately remove all the clears precisely to give the chicks more room when they hatch. Hatch rates are well over 90%, and the buffeting of the unhatched eggs is substantial. So, you are wrong .... did I already say that?
Here is a thought for you to ponder. Why do we stop turning the eggs on day 18?
We do this because all studies conducted outside the kitchens of some here tell us it is beneficial.
We do this because all studies conducted outside the kitchens of some here tell us it is beneficial.
The evidence I have is that I went from extremely poor hatch rates with fully grown chicks dead in the shell to over 90% every time with the egg carton method. Call it "busy work" or what ever you want to call it.... the results speak for themselves.
That isn't evidence, it's an observation based on factors we cannot know. I am pleased for you, but I wonder what you were not doing right before. To suggest that Dead-in-shell can be corrected with egg cartons is ridiculous. That isn't even the main reason we are having this debate. The results do not speak for themselves, because we have no idea what they are saying.
That isn't evidence, it's an observation based on factors we cannot know. I am pleased for you, but I wonder what you were not doing right before. To suggest that Dead-in-shell can be corrected with egg cartons is ridiculous. That isn't even the main reason we are having this debate. The results do not speak for themselves, because we have no idea what they are saying.
And not with just one member but a variety of members have provided "evidence" based on first hand knowledge that the "busy work" pays off. Use the method or don't but to attempt to say it's busy work without testing it yourself is rather absurd. I will not hatch any other way.
Not true. A variety of members use the method for a variety of reasons, some logical, others less so. I simply asked the question about this method being used to prevent *rolling*, when there was and is no evidence that the rolling is harmful. Yes, if that is your reason, it's busy work
Not true. A variety of members use the method for a variety of reasons, some logical, others less so. I simply asked the question about this method being used to prevent *rolling*, when there was and is no evidence that the rolling is harmful. Yes, if that is your reason, it's busy work
I did read your thread...more than once and I still don't know what you mean by "busy work" ....it's no more work and I'd say it's been less for me to hatch in the cartons than to have them rolling around and constantly checking to see if someone is "glued" upside down to the wire.
Katy, those reasons are good reasons. I have no problem with them. I was very specific about what I considered *busy work* .... it is work done to achieve a pointless end. Your reasons do not fall into that category at all.
Katy, those reasons are good reasons. I have no problem with them. I was very specific about what I considered *busy work* .... it is work done to achieve a pointless end. Your reasons do not fall into that category at all.
I have lost chicks that I'm pretty sure didn't make it out because of being disoriented from being knocked around. To say that letting them be rolled around is the natural way to hatch I strongly disagree. They aren't being bowled around under the hen....
Ok .... you are guessing in the first bit, although I really do understand why
Second bit you are putting words in my mouth. I never said it was natural. I merely compared an amateur artificial incubation, with a professional one.
People, y'all need to chill. Egg cartons are harmless enough, but until there is evidence that the rolling of eggs is harmful, please quit yelling at me for suggesting that it might not be. Your beliefs that eggs MUST suffer is simply that, a belief. Ok, believe what you will, but it doesn't actually make it true.
Have a nice day
Ok .... you are guessing in the first bit, although I really do understand why
People, y'all need to chill. Egg cartons are harmless enough, but until there is evidence that the rolling of eggs is harmful, please quit yelling at me for suggesting that it might not be. Your beliefs that eggs MUST suffer is simply that, a belief. Ok, believe what you will, but it doesn't actually make it true.
Have a nice day
twigg.....I'd like to ask how many years you've been hatching eggs...how many chicks have you hatched and lastly what is your method? You haven't given us any of your own personal experainces when it comes to hatching and I'd be interested in hearing that bit of info.
Hon,
Calm down. No one is attacking you... I think the original post was asking for observations, not arguments. Some people like to try new things and some don't, that is okay. Most of us aren't working with climate controlled rooms and equipment worth thousands of dollars doing our backyard hatches.
Everyone reads the same sentence differently, for instance when you mentioned c-section, it seemed a little extreme of a comparison without any evidence. Several people have mentioned using other mediums to control extreme rolling as all you have to have is one chick smother in the shell because they were literally glued into another shell after being rolled into it. I have seen that happen and you feel bad wondering if you could have had one more healthy chick.
Calm down. No one is attacking you... I think the original post was asking for observations, not arguments. Some people like to try new things and some don't, that is okay. Most of us aren't working with climate controlled rooms and equipment worth thousands of dollars doing our backyard hatches.
Everyone reads the same sentence differently, for instance when you mentioned c-section, it seemed a little extreme of a comparison without any evidence. Several people have mentioned using other mediums to control extreme rolling as all you have to have is one chick smother in the shell because they were literally glued into another shell after being rolled into it. I have seen that happen and you feel bad wondering if you could have had one more healthy chick.
Quote:
Woah!
Let's see if we can simply dismiss twigg for lack of experience, rather than discuss his points.
Good one Katy, and I was just so nice to you
Ok, I'll continue to be nice ......
I have been hatching eggs, off and on since 1974. I ran commercial duck incubators at age 15, containing up to 4000 eggs apiece. I'll tell you more about that one day.
My sig contains a link to the most recent incubator I built, which recently hatched 67 to 77% hatch rate, depending on how ya count 'em. Previously I used a Brinsea Octagon 20 to hatch chickens, ducks and geese, with eggcelent results.
I have made nearly 600 posts in these forums, and rarely had to be corrected for errors. It happens, I make mistakes.
I am always eager to both learn and teach, but I will demand that assertions are quantified, much in the way I expect mine to be. So, when a point comes up that is both unproven and contrary to evidence that I can easily find, I might choose to confront it.
I expect to be treated the same in return. I do not expect members to *have a laugh*, nor do I expect to be questioned as to my credibility, when the points I raise are substantive and reasonable but ..... as I said, I am nice
Woah!
Let's see if we can simply dismiss twigg for lack of experience, rather than discuss his points.
Good one Katy, and I was just so nice to you
Ok, I'll continue to be nice ......
I have been hatching eggs, off and on since 1974. I ran commercial duck incubators at age 15, containing up to 4000 eggs apiece. I'll tell you more about that one day.
My sig contains a link to the most recent incubator I built, which recently hatched 67 to 77% hatch rate, depending on how ya count 'em. Previously I used a Brinsea Octagon 20 to hatch chickens, ducks and geese, with eggcelent results.
I have made nearly 600 posts in these forums, and rarely had to be corrected for errors. It happens, I make mistakes.
I am always eager to both learn and teach, but I will demand that assertions are quantified, much in the way I expect mine to be. So, when a point comes up that is both unproven and contrary to evidence that I can easily find, I might choose to confront it.
I expect to be treated the same in return. I do not expect members to *have a laugh*, nor do I expect to be questioned as to my credibility, when the points I raise are substantive and reasonable but ..... as I said, I am nice
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