Eggbound or Internal Laying?

[Nefertarij]

I registered for an account here, finally, to ask this question.

I have a Brahma hen who is nearly 1 year old. I haven't weighed her but I believe she is a normal weight. For the last few days, maybe a week, she has been holding her tail down and acting subdued. She's eating a little but I think she has lost her appetite a bit. She eats organic layer feed. She has been pooping, and it does look on the runny side to me, but no blood. A couple days we separated her from the flock, so she has spent the last couple days in a kennel on our deck with some hay and food and water, and I've been giving her a piece of bread soaked with water and apple cider vinegar.

I poked around online and began to suspect either a crop issue or that she was egg bound. From checking her externally, I could not tell either way. Her crop felt normal and I could not see any sign of a stuck egg at the vent. This morning I did the warm bath (which she didn't mind at all) and checked her internally. I could feel an egg, but it was not very near the vent, and I couldn't feel it directly ... it was through a layer of tissue. It seemed to me to be below the oviduct (if my finger was actually in the oviduct, which I am not sure!). I am not sure if this particular hen has laid an egg before, but it felt normal sized to me.

We are not looking to get veterinarian assistance. Hoping to get this solved at home.

Any way to tell if that egg is internal or bound? She IS pooping, so I would think that would suggest internal, but the prognosis isn't good for her then. Is there anything I can do?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

For the last few days, maybe a week, she has been holding her tail down and acting subdued. She's eating a little but I think she has lost her appetite a bit.

I've been giving her a piece of bread soaked with water and apple cider vinegar.

began to suspect either a crop issue or that she was egg bound. From checking her externally, I could not tell either way. Her crop felt normal and I could not see any sign of a stuck egg at the vent. This morning I did the warm bath (which she didn't mind at all) and checked her internally. I could feel an egg, but it was not very near the vent, and I couldn't feel it directly ... it was through a layer of tissue. It seemed to me to be below the oviduct

Any way to tell if that egg is internal or bound? She IS pooping

Hi @Nefertarij Welcome To BYC

I'm sorry to hear about your hen.

If you felt an egg, but it seemed like it was through a layer of tissue, I would take a guess and say she's laying internally. Unfortunately if that is the case, there's not a lot that can be done. You can keep her comfortable, eating/drinking and see if she improves. Sometimes they can still carry on with a reproductive problem, other times they continue to fail regardless of what you do. You will want to observe her closely and if she is in a state of decline, it would be kinder to end her suffering.

Supportive care would include, epsom salts soak (IF that seems to sooth her and she's not lethargic). Poultry vitamins and see that she is eating/drinking. Make sure the crop is empty in the morning before she eats/drinks. Bread can be binding and has little nutritional value it would be better to eliminate that. Offer soaked feed and a little scrambled egg instead.
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/disorders-of-the-reproductive-system/internal-layer-poultry

 

[Nefertarij]

Thank you for your reply. A bit of an update ... she ended up laying an egg late yesterday. Today her poop was not runny. She is still holding her tail down but it seems like she ate a bit more (I will try the scrambled egg next). Is it possible for her to keep laying eggs even with one already inside her abdominal cavity? I wonder if I had my finger in the wrong place and was feeling the egg that did eventually get laid. At any rate, will see how she does for a little longer.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Thank you for your reply. A bit of an update ... she ended up laying an egg late yesterday. Today her poop was not runny. She is still holding her tail down but it seems like she ate a bit more (I will try the scrambled egg next). Is it possible for her to keep laying eggs even with one already inside her abdominal cavity? I wonder if I had my finger in the wrong place and was feeling the egg that did eventually get laid. At any rate, will see how she does for a little longer.

Thank you for the update.
I'm glad she laid an egg.
Yes, it is possible for them to still be able to lay an egg with one in the abdominal cavity. What you felt could have been an egg in the abdomen or possibly when you did your exam, the tissue from the oviduct pushed against it and it felt that way(?) It's sometime hard to know.

Her still holding the tail down, she's not feeling well. Try to get her hydrated. Do you have poultry vitamins? I would get some of those into her along with some calcium - TUMS or 1/2 tablet of Caltrate.
If she is not too lethargic, you can try another soak as well.

Let us know how she's doing.

 

[micstrachan]

The fact that she laid an egg is great news. I would not expect an internally laid egg to feel like a regular egg, as it will not have made it to the shell gland yet. Internal laying is when a yolk does not make it into the oviduct and drops into the abdomen. At least that’s my understanding. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I agree calcium is a good place to start. Is her abdomen bloated at all?

 

[Wyorp Rock]

The fact that she laid an egg is great news. I would not expect an internally laid egg to feel like a regular egg, as it will not have made it to the shell gland yet. Internal laying is when a yolk does not make it into the oviduct and drops into the abdomen. At least that’s my understanding. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I agree calcium is a good place to start. Is her abdomen bloated at all?

Internal laying can be a whole or part(s) of an egg. Eggs that have made it to the shell gland can reverse (reverse peristalsis of the oviduct) and work back up the oviduct and drop into the abdomen. That is Internal Laying.
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/disorders-of-the-reproductive-system/internal-layer-poultry

Now, it's very hard to determine exactly "which" reproductive problem a hen may have until a necropsy is performed. Symptoms are all very similar. Even with a necropsy, "which" name or label to put on what is seen may be difficult to do as well.

 

[micstrachan]

Internal laying can be a whole or part(s) of an egg. Eggs that have made it to the shell gland can reverse (reverse peristalsis of the oviduct) and work back up the oviduct and drop into the abdomen. That is Internal Laying.
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/disorders-of-the-reproductive-system/internal-layer-poultry

Now, it's very hard to determine exactly "which" reproductive problem a hen may have until a necropsy is performed. Symptoms are all very similar. Even with a necropsy, "which" name or label to put on what is seen may be difficult to do as well.

Wow! Thanks so much for clarifying that Melody! I did not realize an egg could reverse and go back up the oviduct. Fascinating and scary!

 

[Buffy18]

....my hen, well she has an egg and it feel like it’s like right below her vent. However, I felt in her vent and there is a thick layer of tissue above it. Could this be internal laying? She is in a good mood but it’s been in there for three days and it seems normal sized but she is ok otherwise.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

....my hen, well she has an egg and it feel like it’s like right below her vent. However, I felt in her vent and there is a thick layer of tissue above it. Could this be internal laying? She is in a good mood but it’s been in there for three days and it seems normal sized but she is ok otherwise.

Hi @buffy18
What made you feel inside the vent for an egg if she's in a good mood? Was she originally lethargic, not able to poop, showing signs that something was wrong?

 

[Buffy18]

Hi @buffy18
What made you feel inside the vent for an egg if she's in a good mood? Was she originally lethargic, not able to poop, showing signs that something was wrong?

She was not pooping or laying and I only have two hens so I can tell which ones typically lay