eggs help

Sorry about your hatch. :(

When you decide to quit trying with this batch, do a post-mortem (i.e., open the eggs up). This will give you valuable information about what happened.

I'm not sure how humidity would have affected eggs at Day 11. Humidity issues become evident at hatch time, as they can cause drowned chicks or (if the humidity is too low DURING the actual hatch) shrink-wrapped babies. At Day 11, the chicks would still be alive in either of these cases. Twocrows, I know you know your stuff, so please correct me if I'm missing something.

When you do the post-mortem, you'll be able to tell when they died. If there is no evidence of development, it may have been infertility, too low or high temperature, or bacteria in the incubator.

If they developed but died early, it's likely to be a temperature spike or drop (possibly unknown to you), or a bacteria problem.

If they developed close to hatch (i.e., all the way to lockdown--doesn't sound like this is the case for you) but then died, it's likely to be humidity (either too high during most of incubation, or, if they pipped externally then died, too low humidity during lockdown).

That is not an exhaustive list, but in my opinion the most likely causes.

It's also possible that you simply aren't seeing the movement but that it's there. What are you candling with? Are you in a dark room? What do you see when you candle (veins, dark blobs, floating things, etc.)?
 
P.S. Just wanted to add that for many birds, fertility rates drop significantly in winter, so just because your birds are mating and were fertile last summer, does not mean the eggs are fertile now. :)
 
Crud. Just realized these are not coturnix we're talking about. I may be wrong about humidity after all--when is lockdown for Chinese? If you've got birds that died during lockdown, then humidity is indeed one of your first suspects. How long is incubation for Chinese?
 
Sorry about your hatch. :(

When you decide to quit trying with this batch, do a post-mortem (i.e., open the eggs up). This will give you valuable information about what happened.

I'm not sure how humidity would have affected eggs at Day 11. Humidity issues become evident at hatch time, as they can cause drowned chicks or (if the humidity is too low DURING the actual hatch) shrink-wrapped babies. At Day 11, the chicks would still be alive in either of these cases. Twocrows, I know you know your stuff, so please correct me if I'm missing something.

When you do the post-mortem, you'll be able to tell when they died. If there is no evidence of development, it may have been infertility, too low or high temperature, or bacteria in the incubator.

If they developed but died early, it's likely to be a temperature spike or drop (possibly unknown to you), or a bacteria problem.

If they developed close to hatch (i.e., all the way to lockdown--doesn't sound like this is the case for you) but then died, it's likely to be humidity (either too high during most of incubation, or, if they pipped externally then died, too low humidity during lockdown).

That is not an exhaustive list, but in my opinion the most likely causes.

It's also possible that you simply aren't seeing the movement but that it's there. What are you candling with? Are you in a dark room? What do you see when you candle (veins, dark blobs, floating things, etc.)?



iamcuriositycat, humidity is important all throughout the incubation process. The level of humidity will help the proper amount of weight loss inside the egg so that the air chamber inside the egg grows to the correct size. The growing embryo's also need moisture to be retained inside the yolk for nutrients to be absorbed. Low humidity will cause deformed chicks and feather growth in babies and death inside the egg. All sorts of bad stuff. LOL Of course lack of humidity at hatch time will cause babies to dehydrate and or stick to the shell.
 
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Yup, I know it's important throughout. :) What I was getting at is that if the chicks die at or before 11 days (assuming a 19-day incubation period), humidity is rarely the cause. Humidity problems, including those that occur during the early part of incubation, don't usually manifest themselves until hatch time, at least not in my experience. Too-small air cells don't usually cause death until the baby starts trying to come out.



That having been said, I live in a humid climate and can't say what happens when humidity is too low during the main portion of incubation... because humidity is never too low here, lol. So your information on that score is undoubtedly better than mine. :)

I have noticed over the years, however, that on these boards as far as I can tell, MOST cases of humidity problems causing embryo death, have been due to humidity that was too high during early incubation OR too low during hatch (versus too low during incubation or too high during hatch). In either of the frequent cases, the deaths generally occur during lockdown, not before.

So I'm still betting on the likelihood of death having been caused by other factors. Of course, without a little more information about what is inside those eggs, we're all sorta just shooting in the dark. :) Also, it doesn't help that I haven't a clue how long Chinese quail incubate for... no chance the deaths did in fact occur during lockdown, is there?
 
Humidity that is mildly off...a low of 40% or a high of 65% during incubation is generally no big deal. However, in this case, 20% humidity during the first 11 days of incubation can be critical, especially if the humidity in the air where this incubator is located is very low. 20% can dry out the embryo's. The fluid inside the yolk can dry out, nutrient transfer and waste disposal is more difficult in drier yolks. 20% can cause the air sac to grow too large and shrink the yolk considerably, starving out the embryo's. So yes, humidity can kill embryo's early on in development.

However you are correct in that most deaths of chicks happen during lock down, as humidity plays a huge part in the zipping process. But in this case here, the low humidity COULD be an issue. Only cracking open these eggs, as you had mentioned in an earlier post, is the only way to know. :)

Of course spikes in temp or sudden drops in temps, early on regularly cause blood rings, all happening within the first few days of incubation. This poster, having a homemade incubator could have many issues at play here. A lack of oxygen is common in these home made incubators.

Oh, and the incubation period for Chinese Quail is 16-17 days. :)
 
Gotcha. :) I knew you must know what you were talking about--thanks for the clarification. Around here, 20% in the incubator is about right... because the air coming into the incubator is so humid to begin with, so it has to dry out inside the incubator before it can begin to draw moisture from the eggs. But I totally see what you're saying and... at an incubation length of 16 days, 11 days is a good ways in. :)

I learned something new today. Thank you.
 

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