Emotions Tied to Culling

[BrandonsBirbs]

I've been following this thread without commenting but decided to contribute. I think I put some of my thoughts into this article: https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/slowpoke-a-reality-check-after-an-assisted-hatch.77702/ and this thread: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/butchering-cull-cockerels-today.1548075/

For me it's not a routine chore that I can do without thought -- and I'd never want to get so used to it that I failed to properly respect the birds -- but I like eating, I like eating chicken, and I want to breed new hens so I need to cope with the existence of cockerels.

They get their chance on Craigslist for a few weeks toward the end of their grow out (and maybe longer once I'm producing nice birds to sell as breeding trios), and then they feed me instead of me feeding them.

I'm not naturally an emotional person or naturally a sentimental person. I'm not completely a "cold fish", but I was able to pick up the cockerel I called "Little Boy Blue", pet him, tell him that I was sorry he didn't find a flock of his own and that I was sure he'd have been a good rooster like his dad if he had, put his head under the broomstick, and do the job. He made really delicious soup and I was happy to eat it.

But I was also happy to be able to sell all my cull hens rather than harvest them. I can and have eaten retired layers, but I *prefer* to send them on to people who will appreciate them as layers -- with full disclosure of their age and likely impending molt and shutdown.



That's what I told my family after the first time.

Once I get them undressed they look about like any other chicken -- just a little skinnier in the breast.

Very glad you added to the discussion, I actually created this post with your butchering thread as one of the ones in my mind. Your story about Slowpoke is amazing, thank you for sharing it with me it was a great read.

I do like this idea of being able to sell the cockerels if possible, glad it works for you and others. Unfortunately quail don't seem to be particularly sought after here already and no one seems to even want the males for free.

However, I have very few reservations about killing my birds it's purely what they're raised for. Though, they always have a very fulfilling life, even if it is just 6-8 weeks.

My partner and her daughter have no issues with looking at the carcasses once clean, even if I do skin so they don't look anything like a shop bought bird. Not that I've ever seen somewhere selling quail meat not meant for dogs.

 

[BrandonsBirbs]

Good for you. I bet it was harder to pluck a small bird. Never thought of that. It would be harder to measure the force to pluck it. I did my chicken at 145 and tried a tutorial on here for my first pluck. Here's the link I used. https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/how-to-process-a-chicken-at-home.63089/

Thank you for the link I will give it a thorough reading. I have seen a few places quote 160f as a good temperature to scald the quail in however my thermometer conveniently packed in as I started so was trying it by eye. Practise makes perfect though, so onto the next time!

 

[BrandonsBirbs]

The one thing I always think about with killing or culling my birds is how do the birds which stay alive feel?

For example, I always raise my quail from hatch to butcher as one big group and I don't like segregating the females and males purely because they get along well and I don't feel the need to. At 6 weeks (around the time their crowing goes crazy for a week or so), I will kill the boys and maybe leave a couple depending on their temperaments and how many girls are left.

I will then kill the rest around 10 weeks of age unless I am keeping them as layers (different feather patterns or especially large ladies). But, how do the ones that "survive" the first purge feel about their friends disappearing? Always wondered that..

 

[3KillerBs]

Very glad you added to the discussion, I actually created this post with your butchering thread as one of the ones in my mind. Your story about Slowpoke is amazing, thank you for sharing it with me it was a great read.

I do like this idea of being able to sell the cockerels if possible, glad it works for you and others. Unfortunately quail don't seem to be particularly sought after here already and no one seems to even want the males for free.

I wonder if unfamiliarity is the issue there? I have never eaten a quail or a quail egg and though I have considered the possibility of raising quail, I hesitate to make a fairly significant startup investment in something we might not like.

But, how do the ones that "survive" the first purge feel about their friends disappearing? Always wondered that..

I don't know that they are emotionally sophisticated enough to process the matter the way a human would process people disappearing in a situation like an isolated house-party murder mystery. I do know that I'll never either butcher or sell all but one again.

I did that once -- sold 3 of 4 of the losing candidates for flockmaster, leaving poor Yellow alone. When I closed him up in his coop after his last friend had been sold he became absolutely frantic after dark, throwing himself against the wire until it was pitch black as he tried desperately to get to the main coop where the other chickens were despite there being other roosters there to kick his tail (not to mention the senior hens' poor opinion of 20-week cockerels).

I didn't have any other culls to put with him, having already sold all the females I was selling, so I butchered him on my next day off. I *might* have sold him in a few more weeks, but it would have been no life for him to be there alone, hearing other chickens and unable to get to them.

Recently, when I had 7 to process and not enough freezer space, I did 4 and then 2 weeks later did the other 3. The 3 left after I'd butchered the first 4 didn't seem to be any different except that Rockstar was unequivocally top of the pecking order instead of still contending with Mischief for the position.

I didn't really *think* about that when I processed the first 4 birds I could catch, but in the future I may well decide to leave the top bird for last so as not to have drastic upsets in the pecking order disrupting the bachelor flock.

 

[Morrigan]

But, how do the ones that "survive" the first purge feel about their friends disappearing? Always wondered that..

I've also wondered about that. As I look over the flock every fall to get to my winter downsize numbers, I do consider temperament and sociability into it. All else being equal I will cull a chicken that just doesn't seem to get along or is a bit of a loner Conversely, if there are groups of chickens that are particularly tight with each other, I try to keep them together if practicable.

I think some chickens have more awareness than others. My last rooster had a very keen sense that I was removing chickens for butchering. It didn't matter that the chickens were removed in the dark of night and butchered out of sight. The morning after the first time I culled, as I came into the yard to feed them, he frantically herded all the hens away from me and that pattern never really changed. From that day on he was terrified of me and clearly (rightfully so!) viewed me as a predator. Even if I culled chickens -- hens, cockerels, no matter -- from my other coop who's yard shares an adjoining wire fence, he would race across the fence line the morning after, sticking his head through the fence. I swear he was counting chickens. I never want a chicken that smart again.

 

[BrandonsBirbs]

I wonder if unfamiliarity is the issue there? I have never eaten a quail or a quail egg and though I have considered the possibility of raising quail, I hesitate to make a fairly significant startup investment in something we might not like.



I don't know that they are emotionally sophisticated enough to process the matter the way a human would process people disappearing in a situation like an isolated house-party murder mystery. I do know that I'll never either butcher or sell all but one again.

I did that once -- sold 3 of 4 of the losing candidates for flockmaster, leaving poor Yellow alone. When I closed him up in his coop after his last friend had been sold he became absolutely frantic after dark, throwing himself against the wire until it was pitch black as he tried desperately to get to the main coop where the other chickens were despite there being other roosters there to kick his tail (not to mention the senior hens' poor opinion of 20-week cockerels).

I didn't have any other culls to put with him, having already sold all the females I was selling, so I butchered him on my next day off. I *might* have sold him in a few more weeks, but it would have been no life for him to be there alone, hearing other chickens and unable to get to them.

Recently, when I had 7 to process and not enough freezer space, I did 4 and then 2 weeks later did the other 3. The 3 left after I'd butchered the first 4 didn't seem to be any different except that Rockstar was unequivocally top of the pecking order instead of still contending with Mischief for the position.

I didn't really *think* about that when I processed the first 4 birds I could catch, but in the future I may well decide to leave the top bird for last so as not to have drastic upsets in the pecking order disrupting the bachelor flock.

Definitely possible, very expensive restaurants host quail meat and occasionally quail eggs. Some supermarkets sell quail eggs but for quite a price (£3 for 6 I believe) which is ridiculous when a quail egg is equal in size to about a ⅓ of a chicken egg. The meat tastes fantastic, not sure how I would describe it maybe like a gamey turkey, the eggs taste amazing basically like chicken eggs but more earthy.

I think butchering him was the right thing to do, no need making him suffer for a few weeks especially if the possiblity of moving turned into a lack of possibility. I always have done groups so I don't know about leaving them alone or numbers drastically reduced, seeing posts of single chicks being brooded really annoys me though. Not nice at all in my opinion.

That's a good point about pecking order and definitely something to remember for future killings, really good point thank you.

 

[BrandonsBirbs]

I've also wondered about that. As I look over the flock every fall to get to my winter downsize numbers, I do consider temperament and sociability into it. All else being equal I will cull a chicken that just doesn't seem to get along or is a bit of a loner Conversely, if there are groups of chickens that are particularly tight with each other, I try to keep them together if practicable.

I think some chickens have more awareness than others. My last rooster had a very keen sense that I was removing chickens for butchering. It didn't matter that the chickens were removed in the dark of night and butchered out of sight. The morning after the first time I culled, as I came into the yard to feed them, he frantically herded all the hens away from me and that pattern never really changed. From that day on he was terrified of me and clearly (rightfully so!) viewed me as a predator. Even if I culled chickens -- hens, cockerels, no matter -- from my other coop who's yard shares an adjoining wire fence, he would race across the fence line the morning after, sticking his head through the fence. I swear he was counting chickens. I never want a chicken that smart again.

I think all species have some who are more clever and some more dumb. I've had some quail who seem to just know what's going on and I have had hens proper peck me when taking their male relatives out of their cage to butcher them. Maybe just chance that they peck me then but most my birds seem very docile considering I do not pet them often.

It is probably very true that birds don't have the emotional maturity to process the disappearance of friends and in fact maybe instinctively "expect" it as that's how it would be out in the wild. I do know that my girls for the next two days will be  very skittish and very scared when I put my hands into the cage as this seems to happen every time.

 

[3KillerBs]

I think butchering him was the right thing to do, no need making him suffer for a few weeks especially if the possiblity of moving turned into a lack of possibility. I always have done groups so I don't know about leaving them alone or numbers drastically reduced, seeing posts of single chicks being brooded really annoys me though. Not nice at all in my opinion.

I'd known he'd be lonely without his brothers after they were sold, but I didn't expect him to be so intensely frantic. He was going to hurt himself bashing against the wire.

 

[BrandonsBirbs]

I'd known he'd be lonely without his brothers after they were sold, but I didn't expect him to be so intensely frantic. He was going to hurt himself bashing against the wire.

I think that shows something, like he must understand that he's now alone and his friends are gone?

 

[samanthaoverton]

The thing with retired layers is that they are full of FLAVOR. The reason some kinds of commercial chicken products are so intensely chicken-y is that they're made from retired laying hens or the culls from commercial breeding flocks.

They have to be crockpotted or slow-simmered for tenderness, and the meat may still be stringy and tough, but the broth will be amazing -- unlike anything you've ever made from a store-bought Cornish X.

Thank you for the advice on flavor I might have to do a slow cooked soup or something creative.