Encouraging exercise & sanitation (Getting 'em off the ground) = cotes

[Resolution]

Quote:
Why? If I clean up the poop out of the bedding every a.m. my birds aren't living in it, breathing it, or walking in it. ???

Why are windows necessary? Mine have ventilation towards the top but not actual windows. ?

Of all the animals on the planet, birds have by far the most sensitive respiratory systems. They need as much air circulation as you can possibly give to them, especially when they are sleeping. Fecal material arrives with urea. It should be collecting on material that prevents that bacteria from ever touching the ground. Yes. Plenty of people do things a different way. I do not.

Bird Respiratory System

 

[pawsplus]

Quote:
I don't see, though, how collecting the poop CLOSER to them is better. ?? I.e., if you use poop boards or hammocks or whatever, they are hung just below the roosts, correct? So the poop is right under them--closer for them to breath the ammonia fumes. And unless you completely remove the boards or hammocks every a.m., wash them thoroughly, and dry them, there will still be bacteria. Surely you don't do that?

I see your point . . . to a point, LOL. I only have 2 chickens (used to be 3, will soon be 4) in a HUGE coop, so I don't think this is as much of an issue as it would be in a more crowded area.

After all, the birds will poop in the run and coop all day long and you can't stop them, LOL. What can you do about all THAT bacteria? I scoop the poop daily in the sand-covered run, which is more than most people do, but it's simply not possible to eliminate all bacteria from their lives.

 

[Resolution]

My poop hammocks are quite some distance below the perches. If the birds are fed an optimal diet there shouldn't be any ammonia.

. In the evening, the birds expunge a different sort of manure than during the day and quite a bit more of it. There is also more urea involved.
It's just a good idea to never let the birds walk where they have pooped. The hammock also provides more room in the enclosure that the birds can occupy- that is - they will occupy the space beneath it like a separate room- makes for a more diverse captive environment.

 

[knjinnm]

I like hammocks because poop dries faster and with good ventilation ammonia dissipates quickly.

 

[pawsplus]

Well, I do think that huge coop/small # of birds means that it's not really an issue for me, LOL. I never smell a THING in the coop. The run was a different story--before I redid the footing things got nasty out there in the wintertime, but w/ the sand over gravel over landscape fabric, and my picking the poop up every day, that shouldn't be the case anymore. But inside the coop it always smells sweet. There is also lots of ventilation under the eaves in my big "outhouse."

 

[perchie.girl]

I have lost and found and lost this thread many times. Whew I found it again....

I have read it through start to finish. I love a lively discussion from many points of view. It serves to educated those of us who have huge gaps in their knowledge. Thank you for the jump start.....

And this time I am contributing and asking. Can the Cote be adapted to Guineas?

I am preparing to move eleven Juvenile Guinea Fowl up to my house in the desert. I have another 33 keets being brooded here by the coast. I have Carte Blanche up at home to build what ever they need to have a healthy life, within my physical limitations. My intention is to build an open air Poultry house. Having three sides. Two walls for prevailing winds southern sun block and a roof. That has been my construction of preference for quite some time. I know the needs of Guineas are somewhat different than Chickens though I am assuming what ever I build for the Guineas can be adjusted for the chickens.

I love the concept of building a habitat rather than just a coop. And in order to do it right I have been sucking up info where I can about Guineas. It is very hard to come by.... Probably because they haven't been domesticated as long as chickens. And for me I am a book reader.... so far not satisfied with what have found.

I do know this:

1. They need space to run and chase each other
2. They Roost very high even as fledglings.
3. They are very secretive with nesting, and they nest in scrapes.
4. Their dietary needs are different

What I want to do is encourage nesting in the enclosure. I don't care where. I have some idea of some experiments I can conduct with regard to Nesting. I want to free range about half the flock at a time so I am certain they will come back With eighteen acres and being very close to BLM land I wont be disturbing neighbor or risking having some get run over on the road. But during laying season Here its Feb through about the end of July I want to keep them in because I can hike out to locate nests. I can provide at least 75 x 75 square feet of run/aviary setup.

They are a much more active bird lots of flitting and jumping about so feeding up on a shelf may need to be a creative affair leaving room for jostling. Most definitely I will need several feeding and watering stations. The water will need to be shaded so it doesn't reach 110 degrees in the sun. Therefore at least one water source will need to be in the poultry house.

At first I wanted to do Deep litter but Now am leaning toward sand. Actually I want to do several surfaces Sand, gravel, stone, some bedding (rice hulls not shavings because I use them for the horse) Several surfaces to keep their feet tough for when they free range seems like a good idea.

We get lots of wind so I know the coop will be pretty much dander free. I want to take advantage of that constant air circulation. But I will need to build draft free areas for those Cold desert days. This is where my creativity is at a loss. I want to make it a free choice area so that I wont need to make it a decision on my part to pull down tarps to block the wind.

What ever I build for the guineas I will duplicate with adjustments for the chickens.

Any thoughts?

 

[Resolution]

perchie.girl :

I have lost and found and lost this thread many times. Whew I found it again....

I have read it through start to finish. I love a lively discussion from many points of view. It serves to educated those of us who have huge gaps in their knowledge. Thank you for the jump start.....

And this time I am contributing and asking. Can the Cote be adapted to Guineas?

I am preparing to move eleven Juvenile Guinea Fowl up to my house in the desert. I have another 33 keets being brooded here by the coast. I have Carte Blanche up at home to build what ever they need to have a healthy life, within my physical limitations. My intention is to build an open air Poultry house. Having three sides. Two walls for prevailing winds southern sun block and a roof. That has been my construction of preference for quite some time. I know the needs of Guineas are somewhat different than Chickens though I am assuming what ever I build for the Guineas can be adjusted for the chickens.

I love the concept of building a habitat rather than just a coop. And in order to do it right I have been sucking up info where I can about Guineas. It is very hard to come by.... Probably because they haven't been domesticated as long as chickens. And for me I am a book reader.... so far not satisfied with what have found.

I do know this:

1. They need space to run and chase each other
2. They Roost very high even as fledglings.
3. They are very secretive with nesting, and they nest in scrapes.
4. Their dietary needs are different

What I want to do is encourage nesting in the enclosure. I don't care where. I have some idea of some experiments I can conduct with regard to Nesting. I want to free range about half the flock at a time so I am certain they will come back With eighteen acres and being very close to BLM land I wont be disturbing neighbor or risking having some get run over on the road. But during laying season Here its Feb through about the end of July I want to keep them in because I can hike out to locate nests. I can provide at least 75 x 75 square feet of run/aviary setup.

They are a much more active bird lots of flitting and jumping about so feeding up on a shelf may need to be a creative affair leaving room for jostling. Most definitely I will need several feeding and watering stations. The water will need to be shaded so it doesn't reach 110 degrees in the sun. Therefore at least one water source will need to be in the poultry house.

At first I wanted to do Deep litter but Now am leaning toward sand. Actually I want to do several surfaces Sand, gravel, stone, some bedding (rice hulls not shavings because I use them for the horse) Several surfaces to keep their feet tough for when they free range seems like a good idea.

We get lots of wind so I know the coop will be pretty much dander free. I want to take advantage of that constant air circulation. But I will need to build draft free areas for those Cold desert days. This is where my creativity is at a loss. I want to make it a free choice area so that I wont need to make it a decision on my part to pull down tarps to block the wind.

What ever I build for the guineas I will duplicate with adjustments for the chickens.

Any thoughts?

I first designed cotes for my peafowl aviaries and branched off from there. Guineafowl are a delight- I would strongly suggest that you save up some money and purchase some different wild guineafowl to naturalise into your flock so that the domestic have guides- much like running a goat amongst sheep- the domestic guineas have had most of their common sense bred out of them. I would keep rice hulls under them but make sure you put poop hammocks down so that you can build nesting bunkers beneath the poop hammocks - these will look like dressers with open drawers. Helmeted guineafowl like to share clutches- so make the nesting bunkers wide and long- with curtains attached at the top so they can peer out and feel hidden. Try to always keep more males than females- three males to every female is my rule.
The extra males serve a purpose in the flock organization and sentinel duty. Females stay to the centre. As for wild guineafowl, they will be pricey but search for some Reichenows And some Vulturine. Purchase a pair of each. They will not crossbreed with the domestic stock if you have pairs as they are strongly monogamous.
It's important that your cote have elevated entrances/exits- several- make the thing look like a cuckoo clock- replete with bead curtains to discourage birds of prey and invite guineafowl- hang little mirrors on nylon thread all around the roof and walls of the cote with a few cow bells and wind chimes- these all screw up the level of concentration birds of prey require to knock off their food. Owls- and raccoons- you keep them off with sensor recordings of bees- everytime something touches the netting the angry buzz sounds out and that precludes any further interest by owls or racoons- in the wild of Africa, guineafowl will often perch in trees with enormous hives of wasps and bees in them for just this reason.​

 

[calista]

Quote:

I've kept poultry successfully for over 40 years in a lot of different poop-splattered environments (no poop hammocks), and this is the first I've ever heard of this.

While it's an admirable goal to maintain a clean coop, achieving your kind of poop-free poultry utopia is an impossibility in the traditional way of raising chickens that millions have followed for millenia -- with good results.

With the right ratio of litter to birds and plenty of ventilation, chickens scratch and blend in their own manure, and the compost process begins right there to keep the bacteria in check. My birds have always had dirty feet teeming with bacteria from SOMEWHERE in their environment, especially when free-ranged.

 

[Resolution]

I keep over two thousand chickens in four different farms. We depend on eggs and meat to support these farms. I've also been keeping chickens for close to forty years myself. Our family has farmed poultry for many generations. I take biosecurity very seriously and so should anyone that can't afford to have ecoli or salmonella contaminate their eggs or replace whole flocks of birds due to mycoplasma. Whenever someone tells me they've been keeping flocks of chickens forever and ever using the old traditional mind their own business methods I like to ask what the average life span of their hens is and what the productivity of that flock looks like after the second year. If a farmer has kept the same flock for five to eight years with only a small dip in production they are doing right by their sustainable farm. If they replace their birds every two years because production has dipped I try and help them with their AHA! moment...

Of course the birds will have dirty feet. They're diggers after all. The idea is to help control what is soaking into that substrate. It's like keeping the mildew out of the basement. If you don't stay on it your whole house will eventually bloom with the stuff. When our farms decided to concentrate more on poultry- we realised that it was hardly sustainable- the culling and replacement of hens every two years- the energy required to clean the pens- and what with the rules and regulations of the state allowing us to sell poultry products- we got proactive and came up with some easy solutions to cut down on management time and extend the lifespans and productivity of the hens. But everyone has their own method. No way is wrong. This is just a method that has worked for me and some other poultiers have adopted it as well with good results.

 

[perchie.girl]

Quote:
I first designed cotes for my peafowl aviaries and branched off from there. Guineafowl are a delight- I would strongly suggest that you save up some money and purchase some different wild guineafowl to naturalise into your flock so that the domestic have guides- much like running a goat amongst sheep- the domestic guineas have had most of their common sense bred out of them. I would keep rice hulls under them but make sure you put poop hammocks down so that you can build nesting bunkers beneath the poop hammocks - these will look like dressers with open drawers. Helmeted guineafowl like to share clutches- so make the nesting bunkers wide and long- with curtains attached at the top so they can peer out and feel hidden. Try to always keep more males than females- three males to every female is my rule.
The extra males serve a purpose in the flock organization and sentinel duty. Females stay to the centre. As for wild guineafowl, they will be pricey but search for some Reichenows And some Vulturine. Purchase a pair of each. They will not crossbreed with the domestic stock if you have pairs as they are strongly monogamous.
It's important that your cote have elevated entrances/exits- several- make the thing look like a cuckoo clock- replete with bead curtains to discourage birds of prey and invite guineafowl- hang little mirrors on nylon thread all around the roof and walls of the cote with a few cow bells and wind chimes- these all screw up the level of concentration birds of prey require to knock off their food. Owls- and raccoons- you keep them off with sensor recordings of bees- everytime something touches the netting the angry buzz sounds out and that precludes any further interest by owls or racoons- in the wild of Africa, guineafowl will often perch in trees with enormous hives of wasps and bees in them for just this reason.

Oh my goodness what wonderful information. Thank you so much. I had been thinking of doing the nest boxes long and low six inches or so high with either a fan of branches or a curtain of sorts. So My thinking was close. The idea I had was to designate an area specifically for nesting no roosting above darkened and hidden from the day to day activity of maintaining the rest of the Poultry house. Yet allowing them to "see out" and keep tabs.

My bloodlines are coming from several sources albeit domesticated. I would love to get some Vulturene. I searched and found Reichenow pair for 400 dollars.... wow. I take it they live peacefully with the Helmeted they look larger too.

Yep when I am ready to free range them there will be landing platforms and entrances (plural) for each direction. The strings of beads is a very good idea
Never thought of bee noise.... Gosh that would be easy to do pressure activated switch or proximity switch.... That would be good too to keep people at bey.... LOL.

scribble scribble.... Me taking notes.... Thank you sooo much.