Enhanced Protein Feed - Winter?

[aart]

Feed tags do go by weight, from heaviest to lightest.

Human foods do, but don't think animal foods do.

 

[Folly's place]

Yes they do.
Mary

 

[Mossy Dell]

When I up the protein level during heat of summer, it is to counter the decrease in feed intake as related to energy need. When temperatures get up high enough where energy need goes down, the chickens consume less feed as it appears energy is what they base feed intake regulation on. I look at is as reducing energy rather than increasing protein to keep the protein and other nutrient intakes high enough.

Free-range chickens with access to sufficient high quality forages are capable of exercising some food item selectivity that animal nutrition scientist have not even started to explore.

This is true.

 

[Mossy Dell]

You are doing a great job. Don’t get discouraged. I have been only raising chickens for 2 1/2 yrs and what I have found is everyone has their own way. Sometimes it can be frustrating to hear so many different points of view, every flock is different. You will find what works for you and your flock.
I just recently listened to this interview with poultry nutritionist it was really interesting to me and helped me understand a lot about chicken feed. It is long but broken up into 3 1 hour segments and he talks about different life stages feeding requirements, seasonal diet changes along with molting, common issues to look for if your feed is missing something and it’s easy to understand information. https://www.breedersacademy.com/ep35-interview-with-jeff-mattocks-about-poultry-nutrition-part-1/

I listened to this and it's very interesting. Now I have Jeff Mattocks's book. Here are some of my notes from the podcast:

Jeff Mattocks on Kenny Troiano’s podcast

—A mature breeder needs 4 oz of feed on an energy level of 325-350 kilocal/day for large heritage breed

—About 1 oz of feed needed per lb of live weight. Lighter breeds, 3-4 oz daily needed.

—A heavy plumaged bird, they need .5 - .52 methionine as a percent of diet, and won’t get that without animal-based protein.

—Use MAX 5% Calf Manna starting 3 wks before collecting eggs for hatching. Year-round, no. It has so much milk in it, and poultry can’t process a lot of milk fats. It starts to enlarge liver if you give them too much.

—5% is a nice fiber level; don’t exceed 6%. Store bought feed runs low on fiber.

— I look for 5-7% total fat in diet, and you can use sunflower seeds for that, but digesting BOSS cuts fat by half to 2/3.

—For breeders, 18% seems to be a sweet spot. 16% is never enough. For breeders, I would be buying 21% chick starter all the time and add oyster shell and calcium to that; starter has more B and other vitamins; types of proteins better. Add 8% calcium by weight, will bring it down to 18%.

—When birds stop laying in Sept-Oct., take them off layer feed; don’t need protein or calcium; put them on 13-14% holding feed and higher fiber. Limit feed and feed better.

—Corn, high energy and chickens like, helps w yellow yolks—but I would feed more wheat: requires no processing, good whole; hard red and soft white both fine. Tannins in peas cause problems; 10% peas fine, as tannins are a natural wormer, but not as sole protein source; birds won’t eat over 15% peas.

—Rabbit pellets: probably best to feed among the pelleted supplements; salt is not much higher and no problem as long as supplement. Pig and poultry diets are very similar, so a good pig pellet okay. Dog and cat food—fat is really high so you really blow those numbers out for chickens. Small amount of fish pellet okay if most of protein comes from fish; fish grower pellet fine unless for tilapia or catfish, has lots of corn, but prob. not horrible.

— High fiber, low energy is good holding diet.

— NEVER WORM A CHICKEN. Take a fresh poop and spread it on cardboard and look; worms can be seen. If you feed grit, the biggest piece a chicken wants, it takes parasites with it, as does fiber. Ground oats into mush will worm them.

— Milk or yogurt is good in small amounts—they can also cure coccidiosis given for 5-7 days. Put it out in aluminum pie plates. Probiotics excellent in feed. Yogurt is good once a week. Plain or Greek, no sugar or flavoring. Can put a dollop, a tbs or two, in a gallon of milk and keep milk in warm area and turns to yogurt in a few days.

— I avoid electrolytes because they are salts—use apple cider vinegar, molasses —two tablespoons of each in a gallon — and will get same boost. ACV great for heat stress by dropping ph of digestive track a little.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Human foods do, but don't think animal foods do.

Not required by regulation but they still are listed by weight by convention.

 

[NNYchick]

I listened to this and it's very interesting. Now I have Jeff Mattocks's book. Here are some of my notes from the podcast:

Jeff Mattocks on Kenny Troiano’s podcast

—A mature breeder needs 4 oz of feed on an energy level of 325-350 kilocal/day for large heritage breed

—About 1 oz of feed needed per lb of live weight. Lighter breeds, 3-4 oz daily needed.

—A heavy plumaged bird, they need .5 - .52 methionine as a percent of diet, and won’t get that without animal-based protein.

—Use MAX 5% Calf Manna starting 3 wks before collecting eggs for hatching. Year-round, no. It has so much milk in it, and poultry can’t process a lot of milk fats. It starts to enlarge liver if you give them too much.

—5% is a nice fiber level; don’t exceed 6%. Store bought feed runs low on fiber.

— I look for 5-7% total fat in diet, and you can use sunflower seeds for that, but digesting BOSS cuts fat by half to 2/3.

—For breeders, 18% seems to be a sweet spot. 16% is never enough. For breeders, I would be buying 21% chick starter all the time and add oyster shell and calcium to that; starter has more B and other vitamins; types of proteins better. Add 8% calcium by weight, will bring it down to 18%.

—When birds stop laying in Sept-Oct., take them off layer feed; don’t need protein or calcium; put them on 13-14% holding feed and higher fiber. Limit feed and feed better.

—Corn, high energy and chickens like, helps w yellow yolks—but I would feed more wheat: requires no processing, good whole; hard red and soft white both fine. Tannins in peas cause problems; 10% peas fine, as tannins are a natural wormer, but not as sole protein source; birds won’t eat over 15% peas.

—Rabbit pellets: probably best to feed among the pelleted supplements; salt is not much higher and no problem as long as supplement. Pig and poultry diets are very similar, so a good pig pellet okay. Dog and cat food—fat is really high so you really blow those numbers out for chickens. Small amount of fish pellet okay if most of protein comes from fish; fish grower pellet fine unless for tilapia or catfish, has lots of corn, but prob. not horrible.

— High fiber, low energy is good holding diet.

— NEVER WORM A CHICKEN. Take a fresh poop and spread it on cardboard and look; worms can be seen. If you feed grit, the biggest piece a chicken wants, it takes parasites with it, as does fiber. Ground oats into mush will worm them.

— Milk or yogurt is good in small amounts—they can also cure coccidiosis given for 5-7 days. Put it out in aluminum pie plates. Probiotics excellent in feed. Yogurt is good once a week. Plain or Greek, no sugar or flavoring. Can put a dollop, a tbs or two, in a gallon of milk and keep milk in warm area and turns to yogurt in a few days.

— I avoid electrolytes because they are salts—use apple cider vinegar, molasses —two tablespoons of each in a gallon — and will get same boost. ACV great for heat stress by dropping ph of digestive track a little.

I had a lot of the same notes. 2 of the biggest lessons I learned is nutrition has a lot of moving parts that play together so you can’t just increase one things and not look at how it effects other aspects of the feed. And what to look for on the label I knew I wanted to stay 18-20 % protein and under 2 for calcium for my boys and non layers but I didn’t know where the fat and fiber should be. Now I know you want around 5 and they should be pretty balanced. So those feeds that are 2-3 % fat and 8 % fiber aren’t going to work. I have been a little less stingy this winter with the scratch grains.
The most interesting was the difference in the diet for molt, it makes since when he explains it. I always questioned the whole cat/dog food thing now I have my answer.

 

[Mossy Dell]

As you know, it's a real grab-bag of advice, NNYchick. Partly this list reflects my interests. Context is important, and without a very defined audience and lack of interviewer skill, Mattocks did his best. His orientation is small- to medium-scale commercial pastured poultry producers. So his inclination is toward mash; in a sense that's Fertrell's business—the Nutribalancer additive is for chick and layer mash. I am more interested in feeding a mix of whole grains and pellets. So that wasn't really addressed in a focused way. But I could seize on principles. I just got his book, Pastured Poultry Nutrition from Amazon, and it's good. Advice seems more fully geared to the different ways of feeding and raising.

 

[NNYchick]

Yes it was a lot of information, I listen to it 3 times. It did meet my needs as to what I want to see on the feed tag and debunked some of the miss-information that is passed on through social media.
I’m not interested in mixing my own feed My flock is too small for that. He does do feed plans for individuals. I did contact him to get the book he got right back to me with the information but I haven’t ordered it yet.