Establishing Spiral Breeding with a Single Related Pair?

[JayColli]

Hi All,

I'm looking to focus on a breed which I currently only have access to one line of and I've come up with the following plan for establishing a spiral breeding program with three clans.

Starting with a sibling cross would be much easier but I've read that a mother/son or father/daughter cross is better so I've tried to stick with those.

I'm a novice so any suggestions from more experienced members would be appreciated!

 

[ejcrist]

Hi All,

I'm looking to focus on a breed which I currently only have access to one line of and I've come up with the following plan for establishing a spiral breeding program with three clans.

Starting with a sibling cross would be much easier but I've read that a mother/son or father/daughter cross is better so I've tried to stick with those.

I'm a novice so any suggestions from more experienced members would be appreciated!

I have a pair of Brown Leghorns from the same line that are not closely related so I'm in a similar situation. I'm planning to line breed them starting with parents to siblings for at least three generations before pairing 3rd generation siblings. I read this in numerous older books on the subject, but I've also read and been told by breeders that it's okay to breed between between first generation siblings but you shouldn't do it more than once. It looks to me from the chart that you're planning to do the same thing as me. Just my own interpretation, but I understand spiral breeding to be breeding between clans (plural) where you rotate the cocks between the clans of hens. I'm not saying my definition is correct but that's the way I read and understand it. Since you're starting with a single pair, your method looks more like line breeding to me. Whatever we call it I think it'll work just fine. You got my vote!

BTW, are you planning to single breed the F2 generations or put the group together? I'm completely sold on single pairings if you have the pen space so you can accurately track their lineages for pairings later, but that's just me.

 

[JayColli]

I have a pair of Brown Leghorns from the same line that are not closely related so I'm in a similar situation. I'm planning to line breed them starting with parents to siblings for at least three generations before pairing 3rd generation siblings. I read this in numerous older books on the subject, but I've also read and been told by breeders that it's okay to breed between between first generation siblings but you shouldn't do it more than once. It looks to me from the chart that you're planning to do the same thing as me. Just my own interpretation, but I understand spiral breeding to be breeding between clans (plural) where you rotate the cocks between the clans of hens. I'm not saying my definition is correct but that's the way I read and understand it. Since you're starting with a single pair, your method looks more like line breeding to me. Whatever we call it I think it'll work just fine. You got my vote!

BTW, are you planning to single breed the F2 generations or put the group together? I'm completely sold on single pairings if you have the pen space so you can accurately track their lineages for pairings later, but that's just me.

You're right, I'll be line breeding for the first two crosses in order to get the numbers I need to establish the clans. I would prefer to simply start out with 3 clans consisting of mother hens and their son cockerels so that the spiral would result in mother to nephew crosses right off the bat but my plan should get me to that same situation, albeit a bit slower!

The F2 hens will be single bred with the F1 rooster over the course of the 2019 breeding season so that I can assign a clan colour to each of those F2 hens as they're bred and keep track of which clan the offspring fall into.

I'm going to try and secure an unrelated cockerel that would replace the F1 rooster in my diagram for breeding with the F2 hens in 2019, which I think would be the most strategic way to introduce new genetics, but I'm unsure as to whether or not I'll be able to make it happen. At the very least I'll introduce some more distantly related pullets/cockerels into the clans from other breeders down the road.

 

[JayColli]

Here's a question for more learned breeders: Where would the biggest gains be made in this establishment process if I had new blood to introduce? There's a small chance I could get some hatching eggs from another line and I'm assuming it would be most advantageous to the flock's overall genetic diversity if the initial cross were an unrelated pair but perhaps there's some conventional wisdom that says otherwise?

 

[3riverschick]

Bring your foreign blood in thru the female side. No more than 25 percent of that female,S blood should be foreign to your gene pool. Best, Karen

 

[3riverschick]

If the strain cross female includes dark egg virtues..The female chosen should come from a dark egg laying dam. Plus, that strain cross female should also have a sire whose dam was a dark egg laying hen.

 

[JayColli]

Bring your foreign blood in thru the female side. No more than 25 percent of that female,S blood should be foreign to your gene pool. Best, Karen

Thanks Karen! May I ask why the new addition should only have 25% new blood? Is it to preserve the characteristics of the line?

The breed in question is the Malines so the egg colour is only a dark cream.

 

[3riverschick]

It's an old established equation. If you use a male there is always the chance of polluting too many breedings with something that is not a nick. 25percent broadens the gene pool without destabilizing it. Using a female lets you strictly control the matings and results. Best, Karen

 

[3riverschick]

Female has large influence on structure. Never use a small hen. Breed a 2-3yr. Old cock to older pullets. Breed an older cockerel to 2-3 yr. Old hens.

 

[JayColli]

Female has large influence on structure. Never use a small hen. Breed a 2-3yr. Old cock to older pullets. Breed an older cockerel to 2-3 yr. Old hens.

Thank you for the sage advice Karen! I'm not sure if I have mentioned this yet but the breed in question is the Malines so maintaining the structure to support quick growth in my flock is a primary concern.

From what I've been told by a third party I'll be starting with excellent stock so tips like this will go a long way in maintaining and possibly improving on those traits.