Exaggerated Leg Lift (Hen)

[azygous]

I've been using Zazzee time release serrapeptase 120,000SPU, one capsule daily. I have also been giving him a quarter tab of ibuprofen twice a day. It doesn't appear to be causing any bleeding or any other side effects.

 

[coach723]

Good to know, thank you! The ones I take are not timed release or extended release, so that's good to know. The timed release is likely a better choice for birds, thank you again.

 

[EuroChook]

I'm curious, how much serrapeptase do you give? This is really interesting to me, I'd like to perhaps try it with some conditions, and definitely need to learn more. I found this article on using it in broilers for MG and E.Coli, in combination with ciprofloxacin.
https://en.engormix.com/poultry-ind...tiopeptidase-treatment-performance-t36417.htm

Hi and good question. How to tag people? Azygous, this is for you! Oh you answered. Good job. Hard to see what's what by mobile.

 

[EuroChook]

Good to know, thank you! The ones I take are not timed release or extended release, so that's good to know. The timed release is likely a better choice for birds, thank you again.

The recommended dosage of ibuprofen for chickens and ducks is 5-10mg per every 2.2lbs bodyweight taken at 8-12hour intervals.

The recommended dosage of serrapeptase is 10-20mg 3 times a day for up to 4 weeks--for a maximum daily dose of 60mg or 120,000 SPU--for humans weighing around 180lbs.

Current medical data suggests Serrapeptase could have an anticoagulant effect, and human patients on blood thinners are warned not to take serrapeptase concomitantly. Even in no event of spontaneous bleeding, it does not mean there is 0 chance of any bleeding event. Bleeding caused by exertion or trauma may therefore be difficult to treat if it occurs--and as chickens have little blood volume, anticoagulant use can make haemorrhagic events escalate in seriousness very quickly.

 

[EuroChook]

The recommended dosage of ibuprofen for chickens and ducks is 5-10mg per every 2.2lbs bodyweight taken at 8-12hour intervals.

The recommended dosage of serrapeptase is 10-20mg 3 times a day for up to 4 weeks--for a maximum daily dose of 60mg or 120,000 SPU--for humans weighing around 180lbs.

Even in no event of spontaneous bleeding, it does not preclude any and all bleeding events. Bleeding caused by exertion or trauma may therefore be difficult to treat if it occurs--and as chickens have little blood volume, anticoagulant use can make haemorrhagic events escalate in seriousness very quickly.

Just to beat that old caution drum of mine one more time

 

[coach723]

Thank you, as in all things, we have to weigh the risk/benefit ratio and do that which is best, or gives the best chances. I'm pretty conservative in treating my birds, except when I know that the end game is going to be death if nothing is done, then I will sometimes go to extremes to see if I can help. Not always, just depends on what's going on and whether it's going to cause undue suffering. It's always a balance of choices. There are some things that I just no longer try to treat as I know that it's not going to help, and I just try to give them quality of life as long as it's reasonable to do so. It's always good to learn more, and to have another tool for the arsenal that could be helpful for some things. Thank you both!

 

[SourRoses]

I reread the first line of the OP, thought to myself "EuroChook must be in the med field" Lol.

It made me smile reading this thread to see you guys so happy in research heaven. Although I have no contributions, it's interesting!

Just a few thoughts on your elderly hen, EuroChook... have you considered osteoporosis at her advanced age?
Does she lay anymore? (I have read accounts of occasional surprise eggs from older hens, and potentially there could be some issue).
Does a rooster mount her? (potential bruising / injury)

Anecdotally: I had a 3 year old hen develop a very slight limp with no apparent cause. She was in a long (6 months) hiatus from laying, and just as it started to get more noticeable and I started to worry, she began laying again (long after everyone else). As soon as she laid that first egg, her limp disappeared and she became more active overall. She laid daily for months after. Someone wanted her for her color though, so I can't give a current status update. Not to say I know what might have been going on internally, only that reproductive issues are possible.
I know with menstrual cramps, I don't limp evenly, mostly due to the dominant leg.

 

[EuroChook]

Thank you, as in all things, we have to weigh the risk/benefit ratio and do that which is best, or gives the best chances. I'm pretty conservative in treating my birds, except when I know that the end game is going to be death if nothing is done, then I will sometimes go to extremes to see if I can help. Not always, just depends on what's going on and whether it's going to cause undue suffering. It's always a balance of choices. There are some things that I just no longer try to treat as I know that it's not going to help, and I just try to give them quality of life as long as it's reasonable to do so. It's always good to learn more, and to have another tool for the arsenal that could be helpful for some things. Thank you both!

Certainly, and risk/benefit calculations always use correct dosage guidance, or else it becomes simply risk/risk, or risk versus even more risk.

I once knew a lady who decided THC would be appropriate for her cat. To see the state of the poor thing on THC, nothing justifies that. And Im not making any suggestions at all, nor pre-emptively casting aspersions: I can tell you are conscientious, and want the best for your animals at all costs. Yet for the other lady mentioned, it was more her pride she was attempting to treat--the ailing cat had disappeared from reasonable, circumspect view. Animals can't speak for themselves, and we must always act, to extremes, for their wellbeing, so long as those extremes conform to ethical guidelines and not rewrite them.

 

[EuroChook]

I reread the first line of the OP, thought to myself "EuroChook must be in the med field" Lol.

It made me smile reading this thread to see you guys so happy in research heaven. Although I have no contributions, it's interesting!

Just a few thoughts on your elderly hen, EuroChook... have you considered osteoporosis at her advanced age?
Does she lay anymore? (I have read accounts of occasional surprise eggs from older hens, and potentially there could be some issue).
Does a rooster mount her? (potential bruising / injury)

Anecdotally: I had a 3 year old hen develop a very slight limp with no apparent cause. She was in a long (6 months) hiatus from laying, and just as it started to get more noticeable and I started to worry, she began laying again (long after everyone else). As soon as she laid that first egg, her limp disappeared and she became more active overall. She laid daily for months after. Someone wanted her for her color though, so I can't give a current status update. Not to say I know what might have been going on internally, only that reproductive issues are possible.
I know with menstrual cramps, I don't limp evenly, mostly due to the dominant leg.

Hmm... working by mobile and accidentally closed this window. Let's start again hehe

Medical--I know I still sound stuffy and stereotypical. I can change, I swear!

Research is a weird devotion, your eyes go square from textbooks and screens, all as you hold out for the eureka moment.

Your thoughts are great contributions! Let's see. I ruled out osteoporosis because there was no deformity, no sudden paralysis. Though she still lays, eggshells are decent enough. (She is a very fussy eater, and so calcium issues have arrived on scene in the past, with poor quality shells; and so she required oral supplementation with D and phosphorus).

No rooster. I am the closest thing to male company she has, and I apologize to her for that ha! (That's interesting about surprise eggs from older hens! This Isa Brown...no. I forget what I was going to say!)

Great thoughts on reproductive issues. Given that these ISAs are egg machines, a lot can go wrong with greater chances for EYP, salpingitis, folliculitis, and tumor. I have also noticed that in the past, that she has had an odd limp-like gait around laying time, but not always. No discernible mass on palpation, but a proper scan would be ideal. But indeed bone, joint, nerve issues could be exacerbated, especially if something is causing pressure in her poor little tracts somewhere.

Hm. I just realized. Poor lil lambykins is old now, isnt she? 7 is good mileage. All her brothers and sisters from same clutch are deceased. I will miss her indescribably, her sweetness, her unique presence, when she too goes.

Thank you for your forthright vibe and good thoughts. I very much appreciate that you took the time.

 

[EuroChook]

This is the limp. She can still run but with the limp and she uses her wings more. She can still travel upstairs. But coming downstairs is the hardest part.

Not great (no oscar nominations please). But will do--expires in 2 days. https://streamable.com/1ee73v