Tim,
Thanks for the information.... very interesting and well written. It also answered a 2nd question I had about my EEs laying eggs that were blue all the way through.
F1-F2-C1 question
- Thread starter KalikoFarms
- Start date
Tim,
Thanks for the information.... very interesting and well written. It also answered a 2nd question I had about my EEs laying eggs that were blue all the way through.
I have looked for a good poultry genetics book fora long time but at close to $1000 this one is way to pricey for me. Any other suggestions?
- May 19, 2009
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Hum, the "preview" section of Crawford's book has disappeared off Google Books, sigh. Well, you can get the reprint of the book for about 55.00 from Veronica Mayhew in England. Search her name and the title on a search engine. Other books you need are the APA Standard of Perfection. Plus , Van Dort and Hancox "The Genetics of Poultry Colours-The Basics" . And the "Genetics of Poultry Extremities" . Both available from the Author ( Van Dort ) in Europe for about 77.00 each. Depending on your breed, many of the old classic breed books may be on the online book databases like Google Books, archive.org and Hathi Digital Trust.
Best Regards,
Karen
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/831509/carefoots-creative-poultry-breeding-supplier-found
Best Regards,
Karen
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/831509/carefoots-creative-poultry-breeding-supplier-found
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Oh trust me, I have all the others. I just haven't been able to justify the expense for Crawford's.
But I'm working seriously on my F2s and B1Bs and beyond and wish I had the reference. I feel like I live with record keeping and punnett squares these days. LOL
I should have mentioned that I raise Heritage Rhode Islands (Underwood), but this project is my endeavor into serous breed improvement for Rhodebars. It has beena fun project and really an education about poultry genetics since these birds are really just an auto sexed, barred Rhode Island.
I'm pleased with how they are turning out, although there is a lot of culling involved in this sort of project... And documentation and record keeping. But I am pretty anal so that helps. ;-)
I believe the line I am developing will be the first "Rose Comb" Rhodebar line.
I'm pleased with how they are turning out, although there is a lot of culling involved in this sort of project... And documentation and record keeping. But I am pretty anal so that helps. ;-)
I believe the line I am developing will be the first "Rose Comb" Rhodebar line.
Do you have pictures you could share? I would love to see what a Rose Comb Rhodebar looks like.
There are certain genes you need to consider. I will use the classic form of writing genotypes in this post
The E locus allele wheaten also called dominant wheaten EWh or in some cases recessive wheaten Ey there are number of alleles at the E locus
a gene called columbian Co (incompletely dominant) the allele to columbian is non-columbian co+
the recessive sex linked allele called gold s+ the allele to gold is the incompletely dominant silver allele S
rose comb is R the allele to rose comb is the recessive single comb allele r+
recessive yellow skin gene w the allele to yellow skin is the white skin allele W+
dominant sex linked slow feathering gene K the allele to K is k+ the rapid feathering gene these genes are very closely linked to the gold and silver alleles this will not be a problem unless you cross to a gold bird that is rapid feathering (like a leghorn). the linkage is very close about 1 centimorgan (one cross over unit)
recessive sex linked dermal melanin inhibitor id+ the allele to id+ is Id or dermal melanin
mahogany or Mh is an incompletely dominant gene the gene allele to Mh is mh+
there are genes that add red pigment (pheomelanin) to the bird that are not documented they are called autosomal red
brown egg color is complex and due to 2- 4 genes and how they interact (could be more genes involved) 0+/0+ is the partial genotype of a white egg layer the allele to the o+ gene is O which is a dominant allele for blue egg color.
Genotype of a rose combed rhode island red
Rhode Islands share the following phenotypes and genotypes: yellow skin w/w, yellow shanks due to w and Id, slow feathering K/K or K/_w, dermal melanin inhibitor Id/Id or Id/_W, genes for red ear lobes ( complex gene interactions), genes for reddish bay eye color, genes for brown egg color o+/ o+.
Rose combed
Black–tailed Red
wheaten ey/ey or ewh/ewh, columbian Co/Co, mahogany Mh/Mh, gold s+/s+ or s+/_w rose comb R/R or R/r+ , autosomal red , under color red due to wheaten and Mh
What cross did you make to produce the F1? Was the cross with a barred rock? Which was male and female in the cross?
rhodebar I produced
Tim
The E locus allele wheaten also called dominant wheaten EWh or in some cases recessive wheaten Ey there are number of alleles at the E locus
a gene called columbian Co (incompletely dominant) the allele to columbian is non-columbian co+
the recessive sex linked allele called gold s+ the allele to gold is the incompletely dominant silver allele S
rose comb is R the allele to rose comb is the recessive single comb allele r+
recessive yellow skin gene w the allele to yellow skin is the white skin allele W+
dominant sex linked slow feathering gene K the allele to K is k+ the rapid feathering gene these genes are very closely linked to the gold and silver alleles this will not be a problem unless you cross to a gold bird that is rapid feathering (like a leghorn). the linkage is very close about 1 centimorgan (one cross over unit)
recessive sex linked dermal melanin inhibitor id+ the allele to id+ is Id or dermal melanin
mahogany or Mh is an incompletely dominant gene the gene allele to Mh is mh+
there are genes that add red pigment (pheomelanin) to the bird that are not documented they are called autosomal red
brown egg color is complex and due to 2- 4 genes and how they interact (could be more genes involved) 0+/0+ is the partial genotype of a white egg layer the allele to the o+ gene is O which is a dominant allele for blue egg color.
Genotype of a rose combed rhode island red
Rhode Islands share the following phenotypes and genotypes: yellow skin w/w, yellow shanks due to w and Id, slow feathering K/K or K/_w, dermal melanin inhibitor Id/Id or Id/_W, genes for red ear lobes ( complex gene interactions), genes for reddish bay eye color, genes for brown egg color o+/ o+.
Rose combed
Black–tailed Red
wheaten ey/ey or ewh/ewh, columbian Co/Co, mahogany Mh/Mh, gold s+/s+ or s+/_w rose comb R/R or R/r+ , autosomal red , under color red due to wheaten and Mh
What cross did you make to produce the F1? Was the cross with a barred rock? Which was male and female in the cross?
rhodebar I produced
Tim
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Quote:
the cross he is doing is GFF Rhodebars x Heritage RIR, and RoseComb RIR.. he is well aware of the possible outcome of such a cross, I am assisting him on this project
the cross he is doing is GFF Rhodebars x Heritage RIR, and RoseComb RIR.. he is well aware of the possible outcome of such a cross, I am assisting him on this project
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Tim,
I think you covered most of them, but you forgot to mention that ultimately my goal will be e+e+ BB or e+e+ B-
The e allele and barring gene are both VERY important considerations when culling heavy with each hatch.
The entire project will take 3-5 generations depending on pen.
I am also doing to fall hatches in addition to spring to perpetuate the time line quicker.
I am hatching various pens of F1 right now... with hatches every 5 days.
I am running simultaneously pens of unrelated birds as well as some related pens.
I wanted to make sure I retained by fertility, so will be crossing those down the road.
I think you covered most of them, but you forgot to mention that ultimately my goal will be e+e+ BB or e+e+ B-
The e allele and barring gene are both VERY important considerations when culling heavy with each hatch.
The entire project will take 3-5 generations depending on pen.
I am also doing to fall hatches in addition to spring to perpetuate the time line quicker.
I am hatching various pens of F1 right now... with hatches every 5 days.
I am running simultaneously pens of unrelated birds as well as some related pens.
I wanted to make sure I retained by fertility, so will be crossing those down the road.
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