Factory farm Chooks and morality.

[Iluveggers]

I prefer to buy my chicks locally (& I don’t mean TSC), however there is very little variety available within driving distance. So many heritage breeds are endangered. If I can buy from a hatchery, breed a few of these endangered breeds, and sell the offspring locally to other chicken farmers, I feel like that is a better trade off. With meat birds, next year I am looking to buy 30 or so. I’d rather put a dent in Tyson’s market and buy from a hatchery. There are so many regulations put into place to make it difficult for small farms to succeed against the big guy, but fortunately there are hatcheries where people can order what they need. I don’t love the idea of ordering from a hatchery but if Someone is raising my birds ethically, improving the quality of breed and availability for myself & other local chicken keepers, and letting meat birds/egg layers live their lives with space and access to the outdoors, I cannot see that as unethical.

 

[45lk9p459gm-w]

I think there is some immorality to buying caged and even cage free eggs/meat. Cage free meaning the big open warehouses.

Immorality is a very broad term ... Is the person living on the 19th floor of an apartment building in the middle of a huge city immoral for buying a carton of factory eggs. Not in my opinion. They are just in a situation where that is all there is to choose from and they are hungry and in need of an egg.

You could call my tiny chicken operation a factory farm maybe. My 10 chickens live in a warehouse (12 x 16 foot coop) but they do have access to the outside (12 x 20 foot run) where they can socialize and do what chickens do. In return I provide food, shelter, and security for the eggs they lay. Granted my chickens probably have a better quality of life than the ones on the factory farm.

Now the question is ... am I immoral for keeping chickens confined to a pen and using them for my own advantage ... not really since I could let them roam over several acres of land where they could live the life of their ancestors. Only problem in doing that is they would all be dead in a matter of days. What's more immoral? Letting them live free and die or working with them to provide what each of us want and need?

I prefer to buy my chicks locally (& I don’t mean TSC), however there is very little variety available within driving distance. So many heritage breeds are endangered. If I can buy from a hatchery, breed a few of these endangered breeds, and sell the offspring locally to other chicken farmers, I feel like that is a better trade off. With meat birds, next year I am looking to buy 30 or so. I’d rather put a dent in Tyson’s market and buy from a hatchery. There are so many regulations put into place to make it difficult for small farms to succeed against the big guy, but fortunately there are hatcheries where people can order what they need. I don’t love the idea of ordering from a hatchery but if Someone is raising my birds ethically, improving the quality of breed and availability for myself & other local chicken keepers, and letting meat birds/egg layers live their lives with space and access to the outdoors, I cannot see that as unethical.

Yes the big guys are the problem. That's why they work so hard to keep people like you and me from putting a dent in their bottom lines. I don't think that the hatchery is the problem myself. In my limited chicken experience, I see that most hatcheries do keep many heritage breeds available. Buying from them isn't all that bad since they are the keepers of the DNA so to speak. Getting above my pay grade here, so I may get into trouble.

You are doing the right thing by trying to keep everything local but you can't always find what you want or need locally and have to go elsewhere. Nothing wrong with that if it's the only choice you have.

Work with the local chicken people around you and find out what everyone wants and needs. Then work to make it happen. We are probably never going to put Tyson out of business but we don't have to be ruled by them and others either.

 

[RooStar Chicken Gang]

Some of the points use have made remind me of the founding fathers in USA who often spoke about freedom and seemed to have an understanding of natural laws... However they had slaves and one wonders how can you talk of freedom and own slaves at the same time? Well at the time in there society it was considered a crime (under man's law) to just release your slaves, it was seen as letting a violent animal lose on your countrymen. Humans may expand there consiousness but if the system they find themselves in is still far behind, it can cause difficulties.

And sometimes people say we are just animals ourselves, well animals may be wiser then the majority of humans because they do not cause as much chaos and know how to live along side nature better in a more harmonized manner (yea some "pests" cause issues but there normally in the environment because of people to start with) but animals obviously do not have the intelligence we have, intelligence and wisdom are different, intelligence is knowing how to make a nuclear bomb to blow up the whole world, wisdom is knowing how but not doing it. But we as humans come with more capacity for holistic thought, so with this more intelligence comes more responsibility, because we are capable of doing much more good or harm to the world, then say a bird or lion. So using the excuse animals do this and that so we should be allowed to aswell, just doesn't cut it really. If that makes sense.

 

[45lk9p459gm-w]

Some of the points use have made remind me of the founding fathers in USA who often spoke about freedom and seemed to have an understanding of natural laws...

Nothing I like better than a good ole discussion about change but, I’m afraid you are more Troll than concerned citizen of the current world. Not a bad thing that, but it does put a damper on intelligent discussion.

I do thank you though for starting this thread since it has opened up an avenue for others to talk about some of the points that have been made.

I do hope to have some others express some of their concerns and/or suggest ways for us “little” people to carry on while the rest of the world stays on the Crazy Train.

Oh, almost forgot to mention that you might want to bait some of your fellow citizens about the way your government has gone "rabid mad" over this covid thing. From what I read and see you are letting them run all over you. Just saying.

 

[RooStar Chicken Gang]

I don't understand Ur comments. Or why U think I'm trolling. Tc.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Aah, a philosopher, I see.

Philosopher?
Is that Latin for "know it all"?

 

[raingarden]

Raising chickens as pets is a relatively new phenomenon. Raising chickens at home for food has a four thousand year old history. Chickens (as opposed to wild jungle fowl) exist because they can be raised and eaten instead of being hunted and eaten. By 1920, migration to cities had made it impractical for everyone to raise their own dual-purpose chicken so the factory farm was born. The factory farm was anything but immoral. It was a means of putting a chicken in every pot (per FDR) providing good quality protein at an affordable price for a growing population. By the 1950's there were specialized meat broilers and layers and each required their own production technology which included hatching, feeding, housing and pharmacology. People were so happy to have affordable meat and eggs that they did not question the ethics of chicken farming. It wasn't until about twenty or thirty years ago that the morality of factory farms was challenged. I'm old-fashioned.

 

[45lk9p459gm-w]

Raising chickens as pets is a relatively new phenomenon. Raising chickens at home for food has a four thousand year old history. Chickens (as opposed to wild jungle fowl) exist because they can be raised and eaten instead of being hunted and eaten. By 1920, migration to cities had made it impractical for everyone to raise their own dual-purpose chicken so the factory farm was born. The factory farm was anything but immoral. It was a means of putting a chicken in every pot (per FDR) providing good quality protein at an affordable price for a growing population. By the 1950's there were specialized meat broilers and layers and each required their own production technology which included hatching, feeding, housing and pharmacology. People were so happy to have affordable meat and eggs that they did not question the ethics of chicken farming. It wasn't until about twenty or thirty years ago that the morality of factory farms was challenged. I'm old-fashioned.

** Nods **
The factory farm was a blessing to the emerging middle class flocking to the cities for jobs. It was very important then as it is important now. What has me worried on that end of the spectrum is the price manipulation and substandard quality of eggs that the chicken factories, and others, are doing to increase their bottom lines. We also have to consider the fact that "our leaders" and the factory farms are diligently trying to eliminate the little guy. Me and you.

Not everyone can live in the country and provide for themselves so these folks are stuck with what ever they find in the store. I would like to see more rural types working together for the common good of the local populace and eventually reaching out into the cities. We will never put the likes of Tyson out of business but we may change some of their thinking with a little competition. If not we can at least make life easier for us and our neighbors by providing quality eggs, and other products, at a good rate.

As far as morality goes I can sleep at night knowing that my chickens are well cared for and seem to lead a happy life in exchange for the eggs they give me.

 

[RooStar Chicken Gang]

Wonder if there was a race of beings more advanced then humans, that farmed humans in sheds for there fleash and ovaries if people would think this is ok. Or would they rather they were allowed to frolic out in fields before there slaughter? Or maybe they would not like either idea and want to rebel or escape. Maybe humanity is already being farmed in ways not so crude.

Philosopher?
Is that Latin for "know it all"?

There's no censorship on my threads/posts feel free to say what ever you want, respecting the rights of others to speak is important, thanks for your contribution.

It's funny some one calls me a philosopher (maybe just out of kindness) the other suggests I am someone who thinks they know it all and is better then everyone else. Just to play along with the play I'll say perception is not reality, the goal is to align the perception to reality to b able to perceive it correctly. (That's another natural law btw)

 

[Iluveggers]

Wonder if there was a race of beings more advanced then humans, that farmed humans in sheds for there fleash and ovaries if people would think this is ok. Or would they rather they were allowed to frolic out in fields before there slaughter? Or maybe they would not like either idea and want to rebel or escape. Maybe humanity is already being farmed in ways not so crude.



There's no censorship on my threads/posts feel free to say what ever you want, respecting the rights of others to speak is important, thanks for your contribution.

It's funny some one calls me a philosopher (maybe just out of kindness) the other suggests I am someone who thinks they know it all and is better then everyone else. Just to play along with the play I'll say perception is not reality, the goal is to align the perception to reality to b able to perceive it correctly. (That's another natural law btw)

Just trying to understand. Are you a vegan? Are you ok with people owning pets? Prefer to see all creatures wild & free?