Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[Fentress]

Does anyone know what the egg production from a hybrid would be, in terms of a percentage increase (guesses are welcome) over the parent stock. I am in the process. albeit slowly, of creating a flock from heritage breeds and I need to decide how low I can go with egg production and still be satisfied. Creating a few hybrids from the heritage stock (ie Black Sex Link) could help keep the egg numbers up.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[Fred's Hens]

Sex linking is for determined sex of chicks, which is important to the hatcheries. Sex linking itself rarely produces any noticeable jump in egg production. The birds will simply do as well (or as poorly) as the parent stock did, in my experience.

Experiment with hatchery stock and try your hand at some of this. True heritage, true bred birds are too rare for this and kind of defeats the purpose in getting/keeping them in the first place, it seems to me, but to each his own.

The ALBC is primarily the group that defined the heritage bird and it includes being SOP birds.

 

[Arielle]

Does anyone know what the egg production from a hybrid would be, in terms of a percentage increase (guesses are welcome) over the parent stock. I am in the process. albeit slowly, of creating a flock from heritage breeds and I need to decide how low I can go with egg production and still be satisfied. Creating a few hybrids from the heritage stock (ie Black Sex Link) could help keep the egg numbers up.

Thanks,

Mark

Mark, I'm no expert but I can share what I have learned so far.

Fred is right on target , as usual.

 

[lcahill]

Found this thread and marking my spot (just finished page 3) as this is something my wife and I are really pushing for. We currently have a cock-less flock as we live in city limits but we are pursuing/shopping for land. We sell enough eggs to pay for about 90% of feed costs. And we always have about a week per month when funds are tight and we consider butchering a hen to feed the family. Haven't had to yet but would do it in a heartbeat. Hopefully I can start with adventure to sustainability by the beginning of 2014. Currently we can as much vegatables as possibly from our 28' x 28' garden, but with 8 kids it never seems to be enough, for example, my oldest son is now old enough to hunt with me and we both harvested mature tom turkey's this spring. Two turkeys, 20 and 23 pounds, made four meals so self sustaining and homesteading is a huge desire and goal for our family.

 

[Fentress]

Thanks Fred. That was my basic question, is there a noticeable increase in egg production from a hybrid? I bred some black sex links this year from my hatchery stock, the black pullet is an attractive bird, but there is no compelling reason to do this if the production isn't better. Or, I may well be pleased with the production of a heritage flock. 180 eggs per pullet year would be nice. It is still going to be hard to turn away from the 250+ (estimate) that I got with the hatchery birds, but of course, if I was totally satisfied with my current flock, I would not be here!

thanks again,

mark

 

[Fentress]

This was posted on the APPPA yahoo group forum in response to a question regarding the nutritional benefits of pasture. He cites to some numbers regarding egg production on traditional farms which some of you might find interesting, I know I did. It was posted by Mr. Robert Plamandon.

The economics of egg production have been measured in great detail for over 100 years. During most of that period, modern hybrids didn't exist. When I reviewed the literature of the 20th century, the following conclusions seemed universal:

* Pasture alone can feed only a very small number of hens. The only source that I saw venture a stocking density for fully unfed hens was by Brown, around 1900, where he estimated that 1-2 hens per acre could be sustained this way (in England). Such hens will be underfed much of the year and will lay only in spring.

* Traditional farms involve, among other things, cattle and horses spilling a lot of grain. This, along with other waste products, can support a small flock of chickens year-round. In 1900, this was the standard way of keeping hens, and the average hen produced only 83 eggs.

* In the same period, hens from high-producing strains would produce between 125 and 150 eggs per year, when fed all they wanted, including grain and a protein supplement (typically steamed beef scrap), given outdoor range, and fed green feed every day.

* "You can't starve profit into a cow." Profitability has always been highly correlated to the availability of wholesome and well-balanced feed. Pasture is very high in protein, high in vitamins, and okay in minerals, but it's way short on calories -- and it's only digestible when it's green.

* Careful estimates I've seen on the nutritional benefits of pasture for hens range from none to about 30%. The latter value was for summertime only. 10% is often quoted. I'm convinced that, during much of the year, my own flock eats MORE feed than a confined flock would, because foraging in damp Oregon winters forces much of the food energy to be used just to keep warm.

* Back when people kept all kinds of poultry on pasture, no one ever claimed that hybrid layers foraged less than standard breeds. If anything, people claimed the opposite, noting the vigor of the hybrids. I see this myself. My hybrid Leghorns and Black Sex-Links are driving us crazy at the moment, since a fence-savvy cadre of veteran escapees is always in the garden. Meanwhile, the Barred Rocks stay home.

* Chickens are destructive to pasture and typically don't range far. Hence, portable houses. You just move the chickens away from the problem -- end of problem.With hens, you can do this just a few times a year, so it's no big deal if the fence is reasonably easy to move, and the house isn't too big for your tractor. With fixed houses and two or more yards, the yards have to be plowed and reseeded, or, within a couple of years, the manure buildup will make it hard to establish grass there. Also, pathogens don't build up as much if you plow them under. (So if you use yards, they should be tractor-friendly.)

For us, the key to profitability has always been in selling the eggs at high prices, not in saving on feed costs. Our pasture management uses lots of acreage to allow looser management, less labor, and the ability to abandon a bare patch of ground for a season or two, move the hens, and have the option of letting the bare patch take as long as it likes to recover, because there's plenty more pasture where that came from. Fencing the hens in too tightly is like a straitjacket on the farmer.

(Karen just had an interesting experience of the power of selling -- she went to one of the stores that sells our eggs and offered hard-boiled egg samples to shoppers for two hours. On one of the slowest shopping days of the week, the store sold more of our $4.99 eggs in two hours than they had in the previous week! And we can hope that at least some of these customers will stick with us long-term. Another store has chosen to price our eggs well above the others, and we're selling better there -- "on sale" at $5.99 per dozen -- than at the other store. Prices are way more important to the farmer than the consumer.)

 

[AletaG]

Thanks Fred. That was my basic question, is there a noticeable increase in egg production from a hybrid? I bred some black sex links this year from my hatchery stock, the black pullet is an attractive bird, but there is no compelling reason to do this if the production isn't better. Or, I may well be pleased with the production of a heritage flock. 180 eggs per pullet year would be nice. It is still going to be hard to turn away from the 250+ (estimate) that I got with the hatchery birds, but of course, if I was totally satisfied with my current flock, I would not be here!

thanks again,

mark

Mark, how long have you been harvesting eggs from your sex links? My understanding is that your average hatchery mix for production has high numbers for 2 maybe 3 years tops, then production plummets hard and/or they have literal "blow-outs" and mortality starts spiking. ALBC birds bred to SOP have a much longer average laying time, so over a given life, will produce more eggs. They are for different purposes, really. Most ALBC - SOP birds started out bred in homesteading situations for homesteading purposes... so USUALLY fit that profile better than birds bred for "battery" style production. That's a decent "sum up" of rules of thumb I learned reading this thread.
Just as an example there is a gentleman nearby that keeps hundreds of hatchery RIR, Leghorn, etc. He's on a 2 year butcher cycle on average and sells the layers as Coq de vin (I never get that right) or stewing hens, and gets top dollar for them, as he free ranges and treats 'em very nice. In his case, it's more profitable to go with the short life cycle hen. Me, I my least favorite part is raising the chicks, I'd be happy to only add laying hens every 4 or 5 years or so. And, my goal is to sell to people who will likely bond with their hens as pets also, so a longer lived/productive fowl would be better there.
Luck!

 

[Fentress]

The sex links have not started laying yet. I am just in the process of making some breed decisions for next year and was curious what their rate of lay would be. I am not a producer, but among the people who are they mainly use the hybrids, unless they have a market for the carcass, then they will use a heritage breed. A standard bred heritage breed? I am not sure of that, maybe so if they are trying to sell decent carcass.

mark

 

[Fred's Hens]

There are many old books to read, on line. In many of these publications, egg laying contests were held as early as the 1870's. In these contests, Leghorns were already laying superbly. 300 eggs per pullet year and these were large, full blood, pure bred Leghorns from the period. There were other Mediterranean breeds doing almost as well.

The better stains of the American class fowl are known to nudge 190 eggs per year. While that may not sound impressive to folks keeping modern hybrid strains, that is very decent, 4-5 eggs per week laying from a true bred, true dual purpose fowl. Unlike the modern, light weight hybrid, these American class birds are often quite edible. They'll be expected to live and lay much longer than the commercial hybrid red sexlink of today. The rates of ovarian issues, ascites and other "blow outs" is also expected to be much better.

Dual purpose, American Class standard breeds should be chosen, in my opinion, for the love of them, for their utility and for the preservation of the breed and the heritage they carry.

If I wanted to compete with the high production egg houses that extend for three football fields in length, then that's what I would do. I'd jump right on that treadmill. I would go into that business, scaled, of course, to the size I desired, appropriate for my homestead, and I would look forward to returning annually to the hatchery as I would dependent upon them forever to supply me with these little quick to lay, but quick to burn out sex links. Hi-Line or Hubbard and I would be best friends and we'd also invite Mr. Monsanto and Mr and Mrs Mobil-Exxon over for dinner parties. Wouldn't that be just grand? Just sayin'

Tongue firmly planted in cheek.

 

[lcahill]

So, jumping in here Freds Hens you said that Leghorns were larger back in the day. Were they considered dual purpose then as well? I have 6 leghorns and while I love how they lay, they aren't much to eat.