Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[Rhinoman]

Joseph,

I'm not sure if I told you but I'm Robert with the six kids. We met at the Deerfield show. Robert = Rhinoman, just for future reference. I figured rather than send you private e-mails I'd ask questions here. Maybe others can benefit as you guide me down this road. I've already spent (wasted) way too much on my first coop and don't want to make anymore mistakes.

I added myself to your list for spring chicks. Here's my plan:

This year:

Build a 3' x 8' x 2' brooder in January for chicks. 250w bulb will be mounted inside. Chicks will be kept in our basement in the brooder. Till feathered out

Build an 8' x 8' x 7', grow out house, put the birds in there once feathered.

Build another 8'x 8' x 7' and separate cockerels and pullets as they mature. Girls will free range boys will be kept in large area fenced with 6' tall poultry netting.

Second year:

Chose one male and two females, place into female's 8' x 8' house. Eat remaining males except second best male. Keep him in my stationary 8 x 12 coop with the females. Cull through my hatchery birds to make room for the Ancona hens.

Purchase Sportmans incubator and hatcher, hatch out as many eggs as I can in February. The incubator and hatcher have four trays, one for each family.

Make another brooder so that we have two.

My intent is to eventually have eight 8'x8' colony houses, four brooders, four families of birds, rotating the roosters as described by the late Bob Blosl. The brooders will be on wheels and stacked two high. I'll keep a laying flock in the "million dollar" fort Knox coop I've already built. I'll keep 5 hens from each family as back ups.

I figure if four breeding trio's are giving me 10 eggs ea. a week x 4 weeks I should have about 160 chicks a year to grow out.

I'll use Felch's chart to breed

I know you think it's waste of time but why not trap nest to increase egg production. After all, I have seven people at home to keep records for me.

The thing is: Isn't it impossible to tell a 180 egg-a-year hen from a 230 egg-a-year hen without trap nesting?

OK there it is, all laid out. Have at it!

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Joseph,

I'm not sure if I told you but I'm Robert with the six kids. We met at the Deerfield show. Robert = Rhinoman, just for future reference. I figured rather than send you private e-mails I'd ask questions here. Maybe others can benefit as you guide me down this road. I've already spent (wasted) way too much on my first coop and don't want to make anymore mistakes.

I added myself to your list for spring chicks. Here's my plan:

This year:

Build a 3' x 8' x 2' brooder in January for chicks. 250w bulb will be mounted inside. Chicks will be kept in our basement in the brooder. Till feathered out In you basement? 250 ma very well be too much. We use 125's, if what I deem "healthily pyrophobic"

Build an 8' x 8' x 7', grow out house, put the birds in there once feathered.

Build another 8'x 8' x 7' and separate cockerels and pullets as they mature. Girls will free range boys will be kept in large area fenced with 6' tall poultry netting.
two 8x8 will give you enough space to raise out about 50 birds. If you made one of them 8 x 10 for the pullets, you'd be able to grow out all the females without early culling. It's easier to early cull males.
Second year:

Chose one male and two females, place into female's 8' x 8' house. Eat remaining males except second best male. Keep him in my stationary 8 x 12 coop with the females. Cull through my hatchery birds to make room for the Ancona hens. This might want adjusting. You probably want to work three males on your best three to nine females. Your extra hens could be for laying in your original house.

Purchase Sportmans incubator and hatcher, hatch out as many eggs as I can in February. The incubator and hatcher have four trays, one for each family. I'm finding that the Anconas mature so quickly that I don't have to hatch them too early.

Make another brooder so that we have two.

My intent is to eventually have eight 8'x8' colony houses, four brooders, four families of birds, rotating the roosters as described by the late Bob Blosl. The brooders will be on wheels and stacked two high. I'll keep a laying flock in the "million dollar" fort Knox coop I've already built. I'll keep 5 hens from each family as back ups. That's an awesome goal.

I figure if four breeding trio's are giving me 10 eggs ea. a week x 4 weeks I should have about 160 chicks a year to grow out. That's a great goal.

I'll use Felch's chart to breed

I know you think it's waste of time but why not trap nest to increase egg production. After all, I have seven people at home to keep records for me. I don't at all think it's a waste of time. I just don't think that most people have the time to do it.

The thing is: Isn't it impossible to tell a 180 egg-a-year hen from a 230 egg-a-year hen without trap nesting?

OK there it is, all laid out. Have at it!

 

[Lacy Blues]

If I were to incorporate trap nesting into my breeding pens, would going out to collect eggs once per hour be a good schedule or is there a better time frame?

 

[Lots A Cluckin]

anyone here have pictures of Orpingtons that they have butchered? Not just hatchery orpingtons but good quality Orpingtons.

 

[catdaddyfro]

anyone here have pictures of Orpingtons that they have butchered? Not just hatchery orpingtons but good quality Orpingtons.

thedragonlady probly does or could share with you whom may have some she is a go-to for Orpington info on here

Jeff

 

[Lots A Cluckin]

Quote: Yeah I am friends with Vicky but I have never seen any pics of where she has butchered any...I was kind of wanting to "compare" their carcase with other breeds I have seen....I raise and breed Heritage English Orpingtons too but I just have never butchered any.

 

[Rhinoman]

Joseph,

First and foremost, thank you. but I have a few questions about your comments.

I wrote: This year: Build a 3' x 8' x 2' brooder in January for chicks. 250w bulb will be mounted inside. Chicks will be kept in our basement in the brooder.

You responded: Till feathered out In you basement? 250 may very well be too much. We use 125's, if what I deem "healthily pyrophobic"

Your problem here is with the 250W bulb, not keeping them in the basement, right? 250w half the electricity, I like that! I can't see why keeping them in the basement would be a problem, not, right? The brooders will have plexi-glass viewing panels (so will the incubator and hatcher) as I think this will be the kids favorite part of breeding birds.

I wrote: Build an 8' x 8' x 7', grow out house, put the birds in there once feathered. Build another 8'x 8' x 7' and separate cockerels and pullets as they mature. Girls will free range boys will be kept in large area fenced with 6' tall poultry netting.

You responded: two 8x8 will give you enough space to raise out about 50 birds. If you made one of them 8 x 10 for the pullets, you'd be able to grow out all the females without early culling. It's easier to early cull males.

I'm not sure what you mean by "if you made one 8' x 10' for the pullets you'd be able to grow out all the females..." I've ordered a batch of 25 chicks from you, even if they're all females (god forbid) that only gives me 25 or so in an 8' x 8' coop. In a few years when all is in full swing each "family" will have it's own coop for females and it's own coop for 4 for males 4 for families, 8 coops! If I hatch out about 150-200 birds a year that's about 25 birds a coop.

I think it was on the Heritage RIR thread where someone (knowledgeable?) said it was easier to early cull females. I was shocked and thought to myself it seems it would be easier to early cull males. I would think early culls are any bird male or female that deviates significantly from SOP. Next any mean birds, I would think this applies almost exclusively to males.


I wrote: Second year: Chose one male and two females, place into females 8' x 8' house. Eat remaining males except second best male. Keep him in my stationary 8 x 12 coop with the females. Cull through my hatchery birds to make room for the Ancona hens.

You responded: This might want adjusting. You probably want to work three males on your best three to nine females. Your extra hens could be for laying in your original house.

So should I should always run 3 boys with nine females per breeding pen? I would keep nine sisters in each pen= 36 females, rotate three roosters (brothers to each other) per breeding pen =12 roosters. Toe punching would be used 1,2,3,4 to distinguish which pen chicks came from. Once every fourth year parents mate with offspring (That was Bob Blosl's advice for breeding heritage birds). If that's the case than I'd only keep 4 from each pen for the laying coop

You had nothing to add to any of the rest of my plan. All and all I was surprised you didn't really have any major objections to my plan just some tweaking. I've been reading through my book list I guess I'm learning a little anyway. As far as trap nesting goes; well, with seven people at home we have the time.

 

[Maggiesdad]

Joseph, (snipped)

I wrote: Second year: Chose one male and two females, place into females 8' x 8' house. Eat remaining males except second best male. Keep him in my stationary 8 x 12 coop with the females. Cull through my hatchery birds to make room for the Ancona hens.

You responded: This might want adjusting. You probably want to work three males on your best three to nine females. Your extra hens could be for laying in your original house.

So should I should always run 3 boys with nine females per breeding pen? I would keep nine sisters in each pen= 36 females, rotate three roosters (brothers to each other) per breeding pen =12 roosters. Toe punching would be used 1,2,3,4 to distinguish which pen chicks came from. Once every fourth year parents mate with offspring (That was Bob Blosl's advice for breeding heritage birds). If that's the case than I'd only keep 4 from each pen for the laying coop

You had nothing to add to any of the rest of my plan. All and all I was surprised you didn't really have any major objections to my plan just some tweaking. I've been reading through my book list I guess I'm learning a little anyway. As far as trap nesting goes; well, with seven people at home we have the time.

This doesn't sound right to me... 36 breeding females is too many. I think he means 3 pairs or 3 quads. Personally, I wouldn't use nine breeding hens unless I needed a boatload of eggs (chicks) I would want to breed the best three girls of the nine possible candidates,to be moving toward improvement.

 

[BGMatt]

This doesn't sound right to me... 36 breeding females is too many. I think he means 3 pairs or 3 quads. Personally, I wouldn't use nine breeding hens unless I needed a boatload of eggs (chicks) I would want to breed the best three girls of the nine possible candidates,to be moving toward improvement.

In the breeding system he is talking about that's not that many at all. You use 3-4 different clans and rotate the males each year, it allows you to maintain genetic diversity and a closed flock. Let me copy and paste a simplified version.
----------------------
Basics of Rotational Line Breeding in chickens

Using this method you can indefinitely breed a line of chickens without introducing new blood.

You need 4 "clans" minimum, for simplicity sake here I will assign each one a color: Red, Blue, White, Green. Each clan needs at least one male, and anywhere from one to ten hens depending on your needs. It is nice to have a back-up male of each clan in case of illness or other unexpected loss, but not needed.

Mark your birds with colored leg bands and when it's time to breed and hatch divide them by color for year one. Red male with Red Female, Blue with Blue and so on and so on. When the chicks hatch, find a way to mark them so you know what "clan" they came from. (nail polish works on chicks and then colored leg bands as they get older)

Year two, pick your best breeders that have the qualities you want (this is another discussion) and put the hens in their pens. Now put the Red males in the with the Blue hens, the Blue Males in with the White hens, and the White Males in with the Green Hens, Green males in with Red hens. Mark the chicks with the "clan" color of the hens.

Year three, select your breeders. Red males go with White hens, Blue males with Green Hens, White males with Red hens, Green males with Blue hens.
Again, mark the offspring with the color of the hens.

Repeat this every year, always moving the males one pen down the line, and always marking the chicks with the "clan" color of the hens.

-----------------

So as you can see, between however many females per pen, and any backups you want to keep in case something happens, it adds up pretty fast. Most that use this method start with smaller numbers (or even less pens) eventually filling them out. I'm moving this direction with my Spangled Old English, with having two trios and a third pen with just pullets, next year I will add a male and another pen of pullets, the following year I will have four full pens, and continue down the path with this method.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

There we go. Three cock(erel)s is a minimum. Four is my bottom-line, too. It gives you the ability to move things about more fluidly. I have one mentor who keeps a minimum of 4 breeding pens, one might be a pair the other a trio, but their pedigreed by clan and paired responsibly. So, yes, to Maggiesdad and BGMatt. I'd keep 4 (I'll sometimes say three not to intimidate those who are afraid of "too many" cocks); four is my personal happy place. I prefer small groupings. As Maggiesdag intimated, there's an old expression, "More chicks from fewer hens". The great thing about doing controlled clans is it gives you a clear sense of genetic stability and diversity in a nevertheless effective breeding environment.