Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[Arielle]

I am rather nervous-- it feels like the first time getting a box of chicks and yet I have raised hundreds since that first box. I was thrilled to find out two of the pens have roosters from Don Schreider.

I like how a broody raises strong chicks--- in the mean time with no broodies to adopt these chicks, I will do the best I can. Toys, treats, sticks and climbing things. A couple older chicks to show them the way to the feeder and waterers. The benefit of having them in my house is I can give them treats easily and often.

 

[Fentress]

I am rather nervous-- it feels like the first time getting a box of chicks and yet I have raised hundreds since that first box. I was thrilled to find out two of the pens have roosters from Don Schreider.

I like how a broody raises strong chicks--- in the mean time with no broodies to adopt these chicks, I will do the best I can. Toys, treats, sticks and climbing things. A couple older chicks to show them the way to the feeder and waterers. The benefit of having them in my house is I can give them treats easily and often.

I'm nervous too! I got broody's hunkered down waiting for me to line up some hatching eggs (hopefully this weekend) and I am second guessing everything I learned last year. I tend to over analize. I have to tell myself go with your gut, your instincts and don't forget to pay attention to what the chickens are trying to tell you.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: I totally understand. I am questioning everything I know too. I have been learning and practicing for almost 3 years since writing to Don Schrider to talk buckeyes. Helps to pick a breed in which a noob like me can have support from other breeders.

CHicks arrived this morning on the early truck so I zipped off to PO at 7am. THe chicks are in good shape even though they were supposed to arrive by 3p yesterday. Very thirsty and hungry.

I had forgotten to buy paper towels to over the shavings for he first few days and of course they started picking at the shavings imediately. I kept moving each over to the mat of mash. Used an old baseball base, a thin rubber, to spread the mash.

Almost forgot to lower the heat lamp down-- their persistent cheeping was a good reminder. THey are cheeping less now.

Trying to pay attention to what the chicks are trying to tell me.

 

[southernmomma]

Hello

This is such a informative thread; I come back to it over and over, as well as 2-3 other threads on this forum, to re-read as my ideas morph and become more specific. Thank you all

My family and I are embarking on our homesteading adventure this fall (perhaps late summer). We currently eat seasonally from our urban garden and supplement with trips to the farmer's market and will continue to do so on a grander scale as more space is available with our move. We intend to include some small livestock and I've chosen to take on the responsibility of poultry-woman....it's exciting! As we make our plans known we're discovering that the barter system is alive and well and have had offers of eggs, fish, labor and seeds in exchange for meat--a little overwhelming quite frankly as I've no wish to get ahead of ourselves!

As I've read this forum I've come to see that some folks are better qualified to answer serious questions than others and I see many of these folk participating in this thread--perhaps I could tap into this wisdom as I search for breed recommendations. I would like to preface this with the assurance of sincerity. I'm very sincere in my desire to provide for my family and will do it with thoughtfulness and intent.

So. What breed is best? A question that is asked hundreds of times, probably even thousands, and yet I can't seem to find an answer.....perhaps because I lack experience with poultry it is more difficult to wade through the mounds of generic information. And so I look to you, my chosen circle of experts, my anonymous online mentors

I may be chasing unicorns but this is what I would hope to find in my breed:

1. Reliably broody hens- I will not be investing in an incubator, will not rescue weak hatchlings as I am not a mother hen. I wish for hen hatched, flock raised chicks that have their feet on the ground from day one.
2. A low/moderate layer- we have no need for dozens and dozens of eggs. Even when I bake we only use up 2 dozen/week. Extras would be fed back to the flock, fed to the dog or handed out to folks in need. When they're broody I can make good the offer of meat for eggs.
3. Meat- in exchange for fewer eggs I want a meatier breed. I admire a creature's beauty as much as the next person but they will ultimately, aside from stock held back for breeding, be destined for our table where we will continue to admire them

*edited to add 4. Foraging- how could I forget foraging?! I don't expect complete self reliance but neither do I want a lump sitting next to a feeder. Somewhere in the middle would be fine.

I will add that I'm not especially interested in hatchery birds or hybrids as I understand them. I would prefer to spend a couple of seasons acquiring solid breeding stock and be secure in the knowledge that (with successful management) my grandchildren could utilize the family flock for their own needs when the time came twenty odd years from now. I have been drawn to a couple of different breeds and have changed my mind each time for various reasons--better to do it without actual stock involved I say....and so I welcome your thoughts, opinions, reasonings and questions as I soak in as much as I can!

Cheers,
M

 

[Arielle]

THose are same reasons I bought buckeyes from CHris McCathy. Meat first. I eat a lot of eggs but still can't keep up with the high production girls.

Hopefully others will add their favorite breed that meets your criteria. My suggestion is to be sure to ask all those questions of the sources you are interested in. Even within the same breed, a line reflects how a breeder selects his breeding stock.

 

[southernmomma]

THose are same reasons I bought buckeyes from CHris McCathy. Meat first. I eat a lot of eggs but still can't keep up with the high production girls.

Hopefully others will add their favorite breed that meets your criteria. My suggestion is to be sure to ask all those questions of the sources you are interested in. Even within the same breed, a line reflects how a breeder selects his breeding stock.

I have been following your journey- congratulations My perspective is an interesting one in that I read in an evening a thread that might span several months or years. I'm able to see someone as they grow/learn.

M

 

[LindaB220]

I have been following your journey- congratulations My perspective is an interesting one in that I read in an evening a thread that might span several months or years. I'm able to see someone as they grow/learn.

M

Yes, fascinating the journeys we can read about and learn. Southernmomma

I'm a little east of Shreveport. So close. Still working on my breed as I am new also. A lot of research but babies are only 10 days old.

 

[Serica]

southernmomma - based on your criteria, I first thought of Jersey Giants. Perhaps check them out. I don't know if they are broody or not and have no personal experience with them. There's a few folk around where I live that swear by them for meat and they do lay decent eggs though not an over-abundance of them.

Seems like some of us are embarking on new adventures at the same time. I have some Silkies but I think I'm going to be dipping my toes into a threatened breed that is a good layer.

 

[bnjrob]

Hello

This is such a informative thread; I come back to it over and over, as well as 2-3 other threads on this forum, to re-read as my ideas morph and become more specific. Thank you all

My family and I are embarking on our homesteading adventure this fall (perhaps late summer). We currently eat seasonally from our urban garden and supplement with trips to the farmer's market and will continue to do so on a grander scale as more space is available with our move. We intend to include some small livestock and I've chosen to take on the responsibility of poultry-woman....it's exciting! As we make our plans known we're discovering that the barter system is alive and well and have had offers of eggs, fish, labor and seeds in exchange for meat--a little overwhelming quite frankly as I've no wish to get ahead of ourselves!

As I've read this forum I've come to see that some folks are better qualified to answer serious questions than others and I see many of these folk participating in this thread--perhaps I could tap into this wisdom as I search for breed recommendations. I would like to preface this with the assurance of sincerity. I'm very sincere in my desire to provide for my family and will do it with thoughtfulness and intent.

So. What breed is best? A question that is asked hundreds of times, probably even thousands, and yet I can't seem to find an answer.....perhaps because I lack experience with poultry it is more difficult to wade through the mounds of generic information. And so I look to you, my chosen circle of experts, my anonymous online mentors

I may be chasing unicorns but this is what I would hope to find in my breed:

1. Reliably broody hens- I will not be investing in an incubator, will not rescue weak hatchlings as I am not a mother hen. I wish for hen hatched, flock raised chicks that have their feet on the ground from day one.
2. A low/moderate layer- we have no need for dozens and dozens of eggs. Even when I bake we only use up 2 dozen/week. Extras would be fed back to the flock, fed to the dog or handed out to folks in need. When they're broody I can make good the offer of meat for eggs.
3. Meat- in exchange for fewer eggs I want a meatier breed. I admire a creature's beauty as much as the next person but they will ultimately, aside from stock held back for breeding, be destined for our table where we will continue to admire them

*edited to add 4. Foraging- how could I forget foraging?! I don't expect complete self reliance but neither do I want a lump sitting next to a feeder. Somewhere in the middle would be fine.

I will add that I'm not especially interested in hatchery birds or hybrids as I understand them. I would prefer to spend a couple of seasons acquiring solid breeding stock and be secure in the knowledge that (with successful management) my grandchildren could utilize the family flock for their own needs when the time came twenty odd years from now. I have been drawn to a couple of different breeds and have changed my mind each time for various reasons--better to do it without actual stock involved I say....and so I welcome your thoughts, opinions, reasonings and questions as I soak in as much as I can!

Cheers,
M

Characteristics as you have described are influenced by the actual breed of chicken, but also are influenced by the breeder and what they are selecting for when they breed.

You can get birds that are bred to the SOP from one breeder that have different characteristics from a breeder down the road because one might be breeding to the SOP and looking more at conformation and feather coloring in order to win show ribbons, while another breeder is breeding to the SOP but is also examining their birds and trying to incorporate their utility functions into the offspring. And you can get birds with the same breed name from a hatchery with different or same characteristics that come from a small breeder. Breeder selection plays a big part of what you're gonna get in a chicken.

And what is your expectation of meat on a bird? The meat birds sold by hatcheries are MEATY - they are bred for that and if you don't slaughter them early, they'll keel over with a heart attack. A "heritage"/standard bred bird is not going to have as much meat on them as many people expect, because they usually are expecting carcasses with giant breasts on them and tons of meat in comparison to bone. Yes, there are "heritage" birds that are known more for their meat, but they still aren't going to compare to those meat hybrid birds that most people think of. So knowing how much meat you realistically expect and where the meat is concentrated at on the bird is something to consider when choosing birds.

And you need to look at how much work you are wanting to do both now and in the future, when it comes to breeding. Any bird that you have, if you keep it for generations as you have indicated you would like to do, requires constant attention to breeding and husbandry in order to continue to pass on the traits that you are looking for.

You have to weigh the birds, handle and examine the birds, and make breeding choices and husbandry choices that will keep passing on the best traits to the offspring and help them achieve their potential. You would have to do this whether you got hatchery stock or stock from an SOP breeder, or you run the real risk of having the traits that you want, disappear farther down the line as you continue to hatch birds out.

You say you don't want hatchery stock because you want your descendants to be able to still utilize the offspring of the original foundation flock. You could have birds that meet your list of desires that come from hatchery stock. You can breed those hatchery birds and select for broodiness, foraging ability, meat, and eggs, in the offspring without regard for anything else and still have your great grandchildren utilizing those birds.

With getting standard bred birds, there is more to them than most people think. Most people see feather color/placement on a chicken first, so they don't realize that there are a lot of physical nuances to a breed. That's where the Standard of Perfection (SOP) comes in. That gives a blueprint of what the birds are supposed to look like with other characteristics, not just what feather color they have. If you put a hatchery Rhode Island Red up next to a standard bred Rhode Island Red, you'd be able to see subtle differences. But there's even more work to be done with breeding selection if you are going to keep that bird as close to the SOP as you can.

So while you are thinking about these desires for good foragers, broodiness, and how much meat you want on each carcass and where the meat is located on that carcass, you need to look at how much more work you are going to be putting in to breeding. If you don't really care what they look like, and don't want to breed to the SOP, it would be cheaper and easier to get hatchery stock than to spend the money on standard bred stock from a breeder because you can still get birds with the traits you've listed as desirable from a hatchery or from a backyard breeder of chickens.

For us, there was more than just the traits such as what you listed when we looked at breeds. We wanted a good homestead bird and we liked the historical aspects of Javas. Our birds, like nearly all Javas, need work since they were left to flounder in the 20th century, but they meet our needs and we've been happy with them. But they may not meet everyone's expectations.

Javas were considered the finest table fowl in the 1800s. They have large meaty legs but they don't have a ton of breast meat. They have large bones too - makes for great broth. But if you're looking for giant breasts and lots of meat with small bones, then they may not be for you. Javas have large bones to support their weight - you're going to get more meat with smaller bones if you go with the meat hybrid birds - that's why the modern meat birds often suffer broken legs because their skeleton can't support the weight as well. Our birds dress out generally at 4 - 5 1/2 pounds. We still have a small flock so the ones we butcher now are culls - usually culls for size, not big enough. But there is plenty of meat on one carcass to have a roast chicken and for two of us, plenty of meat on that one carcass for at least one meal and usually leftovers. So again your expectation of how much meat is acceptable comes into play.

Our birds go broody all the time, but not everyone's Javas go broody as often. Broody birds aren't laying as much as non-broody birds, so broodiness is a trait more easily lost if eggs from broody hens aren't being hatched and the offspring kept as breeders. That's why some hatchery lines of birds don't go broody much at all.

We have some that are foraging fools, others not so much. Again, it's a trait that is learned as well as passed on through breeding.

Because Javas are dual purpose birds, they are not egg laying machines. But due to it being just my husband and I, and the fact that we have more than just a handful of birds, we still have way more eggs than we can use.

It's so hard to tell you and others "this is the best bird" when you ask, because there is so much more to choosing a breed. And much is dependent on your expectations as well as your finances to buy birds as well as house/feed birds, and the amount of work you want to put into the birds for the long haul to continue to have birds that meet your list of desired traits. There are just so many variables that you can't account for, making it hard to tell someone which breed is best - especially since you say that you've already decided against some breeds for whatever reasons, and you don't care about looks as much. I've started thinking that most people might be better off to just start out with some hatchery stock that catches their eye and see how it goes with a few years of breeding and processing. Sometimes it is difficult to truly understand all the nuances and what you like and don't like until you have more hands on experience trying to fully homestead with them - because it can be hard to figure out how to narrow things down and know what is a realistic expectation in a bird until you actually start working with them and seeing how breeder selected traits and husbandry affect what you get from them.

Something else I thought of for you to think about - how much chicken meat are you wanting to raise? Are you wanting to raise all of your chicken meat needs or just have some occasionally? And how much chicken does your family eat? You'll need a good bit of space to raise enough standard bred birds to meet all your family's chicken meat needs as compared to getting modern meat birds that are ready for slaughter at a young age. Standard bred stock is slower to grow than modern meat birds - which means more housing, for more birds, for a longer time period.

Even though it is just the me and my husband, we need more acreage to raise enough standard bred birds to meet even half of our meat needs, since chicken is our main meat source. We do have the goal of moving to a larger farm, but until then, our homegrown chickens to eat are more of a treat than a staple because we just don't have the room to hatch and raise as many of our Javas as we would need to never go to the grocery store for chicken.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Definitely one of the reasons I picked buckeye, vs. chantecler or cornish, is that I would have support wihle I muddled thru understanding and applying the SOP of the buckeye. I have 2 people breeding SOP flocks with in a 20 minute drive.

Another favorite is speckled sussex-- I love the endless foraging as they cover all over the farm.
THey are my current favorites; will see if the buckeyes will take that spot.