Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[BGMatt]

IT shouldn't be at all cumbersome for this thread. I remember asking such questions and suddenly everyone went from providing specifics to vague reasons about this and that. Ended up taking me two years to get the informatin I needed. I sure hope that doesn't happen to you.

My 2 cents is--- becareful about those that breed only to the SOP. FInd out the order of importance to a breeder. OFten egg laying becomes nearly nonexistant; meat characteristics fade away, growth rate is not addressed. I only found a handful on BYC that I would concider trying primarily as a meat bird.


You might try the Heritage Large Fowl II thread too though.

Mr Reese has good birds acording to Bob Blosl. I have his contact info somewhere if you are interested.

Another concideration is characters of the birds, like SOme are called flighty-- makes them hard to catch during the day but that is also a benefit if free ranging and predators lurk. OR do you need birds that tolerate being penned instead. A decision there would cut your choices in half.

I would strongly object to the "often egg laying becomes nonexistent" when discussing birds bred to the Standard. This is simply not the case. I will say from experience it is far easier to breed production into well built and well bred birds than it is to breed proper structure into good producing birds. Of course I'm also one of those breeders who demands both adherence to the Standard and production in their birds, so...

Anyway, on the suggestion of writing up short summaries of the breeds we raise, in case there's other folks out there looking for breed suggestions, let me write a little bit about my two main breeds, both of which I feel are the pinnacle of breed selection for homesteaders (or backyard fowl in general).

First is the Leghorn. If your main goal is eggs and feed economy, nothing can compare to the Leghorn, they lay good numbers of large eggs with excellent feed conversion ratios all year round. They thrive on the range,and are very alert and active to avoid heavy predation. The cockerels make excellent frying fowl, and at one point (up til 1938) were the exclusive choice of the Pullman Coach Company to be served in their dining cars. My Leghorns are very intelligent, and while many decry them as "flighty" I have not found this to be the case in well bred lines, regardless of color. I have never had any frostbite issues with the Single Comb variety (even through very harsh winters), but if you're concerned, they do come in rose comb as well.

Second, the Langshan. The dual purpose fowl of the Asiatic class, being faster growing and better laying than the Brahma or Cochin. One thing that makes them perfect for the homestead is they are supremely hardy fowl, which is important on the range as there are a wide variety of contagions that birds that are not confined are exposed to. They are very good layers of large brown eggs, males have a good quantity of breast meat and are excellent roasting fowl. A very pure genetic race of poultry as proven by superlative reproductive qualities, the hens will go broody and hatch their own if allowed, and usually make good mothers. Their great height (my cockerels reach 26-28" of height before their first year, and they grow for another year or two after that, it is not unusual for them to top out 30"+) and overall size appearance deters small predators, and they are active enough to not be sitting ducks (where the Brahma and Cochin fall short). Although they do thrive on a range, they also take very well to confinement, in all my years with the breed I have never had issues with any sort of feather picking, they are not an aggressive breed toward humans or other fowl.

 

[Arielle]

BGMatt-- my point was to be careful to ask the right questions. I have read multiple times that laying has become poor in such and such a line. It should NOT be this way but some breeders apparently get caught up with stressing other traits. At the NEPC show in January, Walt specifically showed me a bird that lacked in breast muscling--it does happen. I'm not saying all breeders do this, I"m saying enough do this that it is important to ask the right questions before investing in a road trip.

It has been a pleasure to find like minded people on this thread that treasure the value of meat and egg production in a good bird.

 

[southernmomma]

I would strongly object to the "often egg laying becomes nonexistent" when discussing birds bred to the Standard. This is simply not the case. I will say from experience it is far easier to breed production into well built and well bred birds than it is to breed proper structure into good producing birds. Of course I'm also one of those breeders who demands both adherence to the Standard and production in their birds, so...

Anyway, on the suggestion of writing up short summaries of the breeds we raise, in case there's other folks out there looking for breed suggestions, let me write a little bit about my two main breeds, both of which I feel are the pinnacle of breed selection for homesteaders (or backyard fowl in general).

First is the Leghorn. If your main goal is eggs and feed economy, nothing can compare to the Leghorn, they lay good numbers of large eggs with excellent feed conversion ratios all year round. They thrive on the range,and are very alert and active to avoid heavy predation. The cockerels make excellent frying fowl, and at one point (up til 1938) were the exclusive choice of the Pullman Coach Company to be served in their dining cars. My Leghorns are very intelligent, and while many decry them as "flighty" I have not found this to be the case in well bred lines, regardless of color. I have never had any frostbite issues with the Single Comb variety (even through very harsh winters), but if you're concerned, they do come in rose comb as well.

Second, the Langshan. The dual purpose fowl of the Asiatic class, being faster growing and better laying than the Brahma or Cochin. One thing that makes them perfect for the homestead is they are supremely hardy fowl, which is important on the range as there are a wide variety of contagions that birds that are not confined are exposed to. They are very good layers of large brown eggs, males have a good quantity of breast meat and are excellent roasting fowl. A very pure genetic race of poultry as proven by superlative reproductive qualities, the hens will go broody and hatch their own if allowed, and usually make good mothers. Their great height (my cockerels reach 26-28" of height before their first year, and they grow for another year or two after that, it is not unusual for them to top out 30"+) and overall size appearance deters small predators, and they are active enough to not be sitting ducks (where the Brahma and Cochin fall short). Although they do thrive on a range, they also take very well to confinement, in all my years with the breed I have never had issues with any sort of feather picking, they are not an aggressive breed toward humans or other fowl.

I would imagine so-- it seems to be the straightest line from A to B while breeding for type has many points in between. Simplified for sure but still how I understand it

M

 

[BGMatt]

I would imagine so-- it seems to be the straightest line from A to B while breeding for type has many points in between. Simplified for sure but still how I understand it

M

The reason is the Standard was written with production in mind. So even if someone is ignoring production aspects, those birds will produce birds that have those qualities and you can select for them. You can make a non-productive line productive in about 3 generations.

 

[pigsflyacres]

I've kept Red Dorkings in the past and am putting my efforts back into them this year. So I can say why I kept them in the past and don't still have them! I did not understand fully what breeding would entail. I did not put enough money, time and effort into infrastructure. So I could not keep them going when I came under strong pressure from predators. I've learned a lot in the ensuing years. I chose not to acquire from Sandhill. I've had sandhill reds and silvers in the past. That was more work than I wanted to take on. I have chicks coming from Dick Horstman.

Dorkings were ideally suited to my microclimate. They did very well. The ones I had from a show line were good layers and could be broody but weren't a pain about it. Can't say the same about the Sandhill birds. The first two days of hot weather and they were all broody at once. Dorkings are good mothers. Velociraptor describes them well. I found my birds to be working birds. They needed to be out on range or they just weren't happy. They were good winter layers. Which says a lot because they would lay except for a month when the days were shortest. They seemed to stagger their laying so I would only be eggless for about 2 weeks. We have very short days here from mid december until mid/end january. I never used lights. If i want to hatch when I want I'll need to this time around.

Dorkings need work. They tend to be on the small side over all and type is often lacking. If I didn't live somewhere where white birds look like crap 8 mos out of the year, I would have contacted YHF. He's done a good job with his whites.

I like a single combed breed, but it requires a bit of thinking when it comes to housing them here. I have a lot of moisture and cold in the winter. I would do better with a rose combed red dorking. Which is available but not recognized in the sop. It is historically accurate.

The club isn't exactly active. So getting support might be less available than it would be with another bird.

Pick a bird that you like. Pick a variety that is straightforward. Stay away from some of the difficult obscure color varieties. Nothing but frustration there unless you have experience on your side.

 

[chamoisee]

Thanks for the feedback on the Dorkings. Which color varieties are easier?

 

[Arielle]

Thanks for the feedback on the Dorkings. Which color varieties are easier?

BOb BLosl always recommended the WHite color in any breed as a place to start. IT too has it challenges but apparently is easier than other colors. Perhaps other solid colors are an option too.

I have SS and they are difficult; I have BCM and they are difficult too. ( I had these before I knew any better, lol)

 

[Zanna]

I did look at Marans, lovely birds My overall impression was that they were mostly bred for very dark eggs....now mind you I've no idea about the breeders' reputation or if they were hobby breeder etc and it was an impression gained after some general perusing of the variety so perhaps I'm waaay off base. It just threw up some red flags for me

Some people breed strictly for egg colour, some breed to SOP (egg colour is not judged in a show so if the bird is very nice but does not lay a dark enough egg it can still place well), some do both like me, why not grasp for the stars?

 

[gjensen]

Some people breed strictly for egg colour, some breed to SOP (egg colour is not judged in a show so if the bird is very nice but does not lay a dark enough egg it can still place well), some do both like me, why not grasp for the stars?

That is my thinking. I think you can have both even if it means more effort and hatching more birds. The production traits are not hard to identify anyways. That was my start in poultry and spent some years playing around. It taught me a lot. It may make your progress slower, but it is still progress. It is only a race if we worry about what anyone else thinks.

I tend to see a bird a sum of traits. Stuff like egg size, color, quality etc. to me are traits. I want to breed the complete bird. To me it takes a lot to make a good bird, and it takes a lot for me to call a bird a good bird.

 

[pigsflyacres]

The three Dorking colors in the best shape are White, Red and Silver Grey. Cuckoo needs a crap ton of work. Do not get sucked into colored Dorkings. That is a project for someone with a really good understanding of poultry genetics. I'm not sure they breed true. I think you need to maintain a male and female line.

Whites from YHF are nice. He might also have other resources for whites. Reds from Dick Horstman are reported to have good size and type, which is why I went there. Roger Tice and Rudy Troxel have moved their flocks on. Both had good stock. Don't know who to refer you to for Silver Grey. That color is more challenging and it needs work. Its possible that the variety needs new blood. Looks like there is a move to import new blood lines for the accepted varieties in the next year or two. I don't know if I want part of it or not. I'm currently raising some creme legbars and I'm unimpressed with what importation has done to them. Too much emphasis on color and not enough on vigor. Or maybe that's what they were in England and they are also a victim of seeing only color.

Solid colored chickens should be easier. But...there are exceptions to that. Anyone who is working on Buff anything knows how hard it can be to get a solid color right. White is the easiest. Of the patterns the Red Dorking I think has fewer challenges. Its based off of a wild type pattern, but the color of some of the hens make me think there is something else hiding in there. Frankly, I look forward to the day when I can be fussing with color. Its kind of the bottom of my priorities. Feather quality would be much higher than color.

One of the problems I see over and again, is that people are breeding for color. It's great because it creates a lot of excitement over chickens in general, but does nothing to create a useful fowl. So birds that are in bad shape just don't get better or sink further.