Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[gjensen]

Many seem to determine if a breed is cold hardy by if they have a pea or small comb, or not...to me that makes no sense at all. That has nothing to do with a breed or bird's tolerance to the cold and has more to do with less chance of a comb becoming frost bit or not~and that has many factors involved beyond the size of the comb, IMO.

To me, cold tolerance has to do with the ability to live, thrive and produce well~with allowances for winter hormonal fluctuations and their influence on laying production. Saying a single comb variety is not cold hardy is like saying a pea comb variety wouldn't do well in a hot climate. Like production levels, this is something that can be individual to the bird and not necessarily a breed trait only.

That being said, I do think it's wise to keep breeds that have a tendency to produce better in your particular climate and not try to fight an uphill battle such as trying to cull a Mediterranean breed flock to get those that will thrive well in a Minnesota winter.

Comb type does not make them hardy. I agree with that.

I agree with marrying a breed or variety with a climate. It makes good sense, providing we do not depend on preconceptions. Also that these birds are more adaptable than we give them credit for overall.
I like what I like for my area, but I would not want to discourage someone from trying what they like. Some have Leghorns in Alaska, and New Hampshires are kept in South America. That is one of the things I like about chickens. They are found in most places that people live.

I like to watch their behavior. I prefer those that are active during periods of extremes rather than the one huddled up on the roost or gasping on the coop floor. LOL. With reasonable expectations of course.

 

[ronott1]

So you are saying that they are better for meat than Leghorns. I can certainly see that. Especially that Leghorns are small compared to many breeds. Especially the commercial Leghorns that have 4lb hens. Some heavy bantams almost weigh as much. LOL.

Remember, I did say that I did not doubt that they did well during hot summers. I do not doubt that at all. Many strains and breeds will.

I know George. I have seen you on the Spanish breed threads so I know you are interested in them. I just want to present my experience with them. I have and have had 4 Spanish breeds.

Another Phantom breed that is an internet rumor(except I just looked at one outside my window

) is the Pita Pinta.

They are the most productive breed I have had yet. They are from the Asturia part of Spain..

But they are not heat hardy. They do ok but they pant much sooner. Mine have been very good egg layers--barely stopping for their second molt. They also produce meat just a bit less than Bresse but I like their flavor better.

There is a Spanish standard for them and they are shown in Spain.

 

[Beekissed]

Those sure are a pretty bird! I like the body on them, as well as the fancy color.

 

[ronott1]

Those sure are a pretty bird! I like the body on them, as well as the fancy color.

Thanks Bee!

Sorry to have posted them here because they are not American heritage.

The are Spanish Heritage though.

 

[Beekissed]

Thanks Bee!

Sorry to have posted them here because they are not American heritage.

The are Spanish Heritage though.

The Australorp isn't American either but I can't imagine a flock without some in it.

The Orpington is from Kent, England. Quite a few of our "heritage" breeds didn't originate in America,so no worries.

 

[gjensen]

I know George. I have seen you on the Spanish breed threads so I know you are interested in them. I just want to present my experience with them. I have and have had 4 Spanish breeds.

Another Phantom breed that is an internet rumor(except I just looked at one outside my window

) is the Pita Pinta.

They are the most productive breed I have had yet. They are from the Asturia part of Spain..

But they are not heat hardy. They do ok but they pant much sooner. Mine have been very good egg layers--barely stopping for their second molt. They also produce meat just a bit less than Bresse but I like their flavor better.

There is a Spanish standard for them and they are shown in Spain.

I like them Ron. I like poultry, and the variety. The variety in the keepers, the interests, the goals, and the breeds. If they were all the same, and we were all the same, it would not have the same appeal.

I can appreciate a good bird, even if it is only an appreciation. I have a hard time not picking them apart in my mind. I see a lot of pieces and parts, and when they are well bred, they are something to behold.. It isn't as if they just happened by chance.

A vigorous, healthy, productive, uniform flock of well bred birds is a sight to see. No matter the breed.

 

[bnjrob]

And replaced by Rocks and Reds because they were an improvement. Insert smiley here. I could not resist.

Can you see me rolling my eyes at you?

 

[3riverschick]

Don't worry too much, though. What can't be cured can be contained.

If a negative recessive were to show up and if a body were unable to run a progeny test to get rid of it, it would normally only really land on approximately 25% of the chicks, certainly not more than 50% of the chicks because of laws of inheritance, provided one never breeds from a bird exhibiting the trait, that is. Now some possible negative recessives can be seen either immediately or early on; these chicks can be culled immediately from the flock. Traits that are longer to show just help you decide who's invited to dinner.

Now some things are might just be a random mutation, i.e. one in so many might statistically end up with it. Take my strain of Dorkings, I have twice had rumpless birds, one pullet and one cockerel. If it is a negative gene within the population, then it doesn't rear it's head often to conform with my current understanding of genetics, which is admittedly amateurish; however, there is a likelihood that it's merely a mutation that happens. Four-toed breeds can randomly produce a five-toed chick; it's just a mutation, and color sports, though not common, certainly occur.

It's not a problem until it's a problem.

Hi

,
Ok. I will weigh in here. I am a very small breeder. I only have room for 30 adult birds. Right now I have 10. Last season a challenge cropped up with cushions on my Light Sussex. So I did two things. 1. I obtained a very high quality straincross hen and bred her to one of my best cocks. Out of 10 chicks, 3 for 4 of them were without cushions. 2. Inbred the strain with the cushions, choosing a son of the bird who I thought threw the problem and a dam who is 1/2 sister to the hen I thought was throwing the problem. Out of 20 chick 3 or 4 did not have cushions. I kept all the chicks without cushions and everyone else got sold into anonymity. Next season we will breed the straincross cock back to his mom and the straincross pullets back to their dad. We will also inbreed the pure strain -no-cushion pullets to the 1/2 brother of their sire. Once again we will be looking to see where cushions crop up and weed them out. I think we have a handle on this. Because I think any birds involved in throwing the cushions were only carriers, not manifesting cushions themselves. With a small hobby like this it is all about the planning and projecting.
I see ya'll were discussing close feathering. Some great discussions and pointers, congrats! The best explanation I ever read was written by Judge William White Whitehead back at the beginning of last century ( 1921 ) . He was one of the three Whitehead brothers, all noted in the poultry world. He went on to become President of the Poultry Club in Britain. This booklet was the first in a series written by the Poultry Club to feature a single breed and explain it in simple terms for the budding poultry enthusiasts in the U.K. returning from WWI and being encouraged by the Gov. to pursue poultry breeding. http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924003137332;view=1up;seq=1
Best Regards,
Karen
Look whose copy was donated to Cornell. This digitized copy belonged to none other than Olney Kent Brown , Sr. Cool he had it in his library.

 

[3riverschick]

DORKING ALERT!

Familiar science & fancier's journal, Volumes 3-4
Pages 184 and 185 and on....

TIGHT OR LOOSE FEATHERING.

Some time ago I purchased some colored Dorkings, whose grandparents emanated
from a luxurious home in an aristocratic quarter, and about the same time I
purchased some silver-grey Dorkings, whose grandparent was one of Baily's hens,
and hence had lived in open quarters. As to age and size they were about equal,
but I do not think if I had tried my utmost, and of set purpose, that I could by
any possibility have had two sets of pullets more diametrically opposed to each
other, for, while the colored Dorkings were soft and loose, or open-feathered
birds, the silver-greys were hard and close-feathered¡ªso beautifully
closefeathered that at a little distance it was difficult to distinguish where
one joined another, and as tightly fitting and as close to the body as a lady's
glove on her hand. On arrival, and in my ignorance, I admired the colored
Dorkings the most; but when the weather began to get cold a marked difference
was immediately observable, and which increased. In short, the colored Dorkings
in cold weather resembled an East Indian black in the streets of London on a
frosty day¡ªblue, shivering, and chattering, and always aiming at warmer
quarters, while the silver-greys walked about in utter defiance of slush, sleet,
and snow, and as comfortable as English lads frolicking on the ice. The colored
Dorkings eat fully one-third more food, and do not lay more than one-fourth of
the eggs. Since December, when the silver-grey Dorkings commenced to lay, up to
the present time, they have laid every other day generally; besides this they
have frequently laid numbers in daily succession, and occasionally I have had
more eggs than birds, i. e., two in one day. I do not believe that even the
black Minorcas could have beaten the silver-grey Dorkings during the last six
months, whatever happens in the other half of the year. These are in truth
splendid layers, and their food is plain and substantial, viz., barley, Indian
corn, buckwheat, vegetables, and household scraps.
In every respect they fare alike, but notwithstanding that the point of color is
in favor of the colored Dorkings, they are the most unprofitable birds that ever
belonged to me, while the others, on the contrary, are most profitable, and all
the difference lies in the closeness of the feathers. This closeness of feather
should not be confounded with abundance of feather, for I have some Cochin hens,
aud the close-feathered birds lay more than the loose, open, and very
abundantly-feathered ones. I now attach more value to close and tightly-fitting
feathered birds than to color, and firmly believe by strict attention to that
main point (not forgetting the others) to be able to defend the Dorkings against
all comers. Modern breeders, in their desire to improve the size and color of
the Dorkings, have done it in such a way as to deal a severe blow to the
reputation of this splendid breed of fowls. For the purpose of being able to
produce large cockerels and pullets at the autumn and winter shows, they have
resorted to an artificially created warm temperature, so as to hatch a brood of
chickens as near to the 1st of January as possible. This being done for some
generations, loose-feathered birds is the result, and a very moderate supply of
eggs the consequence. A remarkably large Dorking pullet which I purchased for my
best trump card, laid the fewest eggs of any hen I ever had, and ultimately died
from congestion or inflammation, produced by moderately cold weather. No bird
commencing the summer with a decent constitution could have been more
unprofitable, and in the way of food she was a glutton. When this bird arrived,
our family circle broke out in raptures, and particularly in this direction:
"What beautiful soft feathers 1 like touching some lady's muff!" Being densely
ignorant on the matter, I of course was equally delighted, but did not mourn for
her when she went the way of all flesh. When I hear (or see in print) some
breeders saying that much depends on the character of the soil¡ªdry, gravelly,
and chalky, in contradistinction to any other combination of geological
materials¡ªwhether Dorkings flourish or not, I think of my damp and altogether
unlikely place, and my closely-feathered Dorkings, and marvel at the great
number of the most diverse opinions which can be held on any given thing, when
the real and all-important point is altogether ignored. Of course the best place
for birds which are bred up in hot-houses is a tropical country, but if English
breeders want the large population of the British Islands for customers, they
must breed to suit their requirements, and not for very exceptional customers in
the neighborhood of Timbuctoo, which perhaps would have suited the large pullet
spoken of. Notwithstanding that the black breeds arc generally the best
egg-layers, yet in this climate it is better to have a close feathered white
bird than a loose-feathered black one,
and which is the reason why, here and there in this country, we hear of white
Dorkings, Cochins, Leghorns, and Minorcas, laying better than darker-colored
birds. I am very sorry, indeed, to see breeders virtually sacrificing closeness
of feather for the sake of having early broods in some cases, and large birds in
others, by resorting to an artificially-produced warmer climate, for closeness
of feather once gone, or more properly a shunt having been given towards
looseness of feather, cannot be again, in my opinion, attained by the same
stock. To obtain closeness of feather, such breeders would have to commence dc
novo with stock birds already possessing that indispensable qualification
towards abundance of eggs. If we take two boys, one black and one white, and
expose them to the influences of very cold, frosty weather, when stark naked,
and for a number of days in succession, they will both die with, perhaps, a
day's difference between their ends; and this quite irrespective of whether the
one stood on a dry, chalky soil, and the other on damp ground. And what I am
astonished at is, that the infinitesimal should be made so much of, and the
momentous should be ignored as something of very little value.

 

[gjensen]

Can you see me rolling my eyes at you?

I could feel it. LOL.