Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[bnjrob]

I think the person at the RFID link handled that problem by determining a egg usually showed up if they were in the nest about 20 minutes plus - so the short durations are not counted as a egg layer-
This system tracts duration time on the nest - interesting concept but needs perfection

Interesting. It might wind up being something useful at some point then.

 

[Lacy Blues]

I guess I'm just not concerned enough to buy any kind of system like that. I have better things to spend my money on. I too track egg laying at breeding the closest. The rest of the year, except during molt, I just keep mental track of how many eggs I get per day and how many hens are in the pen. Knowing my breed helps a lot.

 

[bnjrob]

I guess I'm just not concerned enough to buy any kind of system like that. I have better things to spend my money on. I too track egg laying at breeding the closest. The rest of the year, except during molt, I just keep mental track of how many eggs I get per day and how many hens are in the pen. Knowing my breed helps a lot.

That's what I do. I know who is in which pen and I know how many eggs I get a day from each pen, so if suddenly I go several days without the usual amount of eggs in a pen, I know it. But it would be nice to know exactly which egg came from which chicken sometimes. I've got one pen right now with 3 hens in it, and one of them is laying eggs that are larger than her sisters, but I don't know which one. It would be nice to know which one it is, rather than me having to take some of them out and put them in another pen to determine which hen is laying that larger egg.

 

[gjensen]

There may be confusion in the area of "peak season"...to me, that is the months of Feb-June/July. That's when all the birds who are layers are laying at full capacity. After that one gets broodies near the end of July, some can start molting in August, etc. I'm not saying those WRs laid 6-7 eggs per week for most of the year, because they didn't. They would, however, still lay up to 4 a wk in the winter months while in their prime and after molt. I guess it's all relative to what a person considers peak. To me, acceptable slow downs for broody patterns, molting and weather changes apply as they would for any bird that wasn't considered a production breed.

Now, I'm just spitballing here and don't know anything for a fact, but I'm thinking that I've read a lot down through the years that nearly all farmers have tried to improve their particular livestock by borrowing traits from another breed with similar looks. If not, they are just playing the same game with the same genes and never improving on them except in mere increments. Maybe some will talk about that and some will not, thinking they will get criticized by the purists in the breed.

I know the commercial side and the purist, breeder side are two sides of the coin, but I don't think the original goals of improving a breed by borrowing some genetics from another breed is an overall bad thing. It's not black and white and never the twain shall meet. My hatchery WRs were not too far off the mark of the true breed, from where I am sitting, as I have breeder quality WR on the land right now and standing next to the "commercialized" version. There are subtle differences but not many, and, actually, I'd like to see the feathering on the store bought girl slide on over to the homespun one.

The laying prowess of these hatchery WRs were what caused me to fall in love with the breed in the first place. Without that, they are much like any other so-called dual purpose bird out there...heavy on the meat but not so much on the laying. If they were just heavy breed birds with mediocre laying abilities, I'd not keep them around long. What would be the purpose of even having a dual purpose bird...one could just have some leghorns and some broilers and be done with it.

I think we will get what we settle for in the end. I don't intend to give up on raising laying numbers in a WR that looks like a WR should. Nor will I sacrifice the other traits I like about this breed...these too must be part of the picture. If not, then I would be raising a breed that I'm not particularly impressed with and I can't see myself working hard on anything like that.

If that means I tilt at windmills, well, then, bring 'em on! Life just isn't worth living if one is living it without faith and a dream.

There is nothing wrong with using the available genetics to "improve" what we have, so to speak. I would agree with you on that. It would have to be questioned whether or not a real improvement would be made, and any faster than working with what we have. In other words, I would not take it lightly. I can picture scenarios where someone could feel justified to take on a project like this. It isn't as if there are any rules. I would be reluctant to do something like this in other than the simplest colors and varieties.
Some have done this. I know of a man that did this with White Leghorns. Some have used a commercial strain with their Rocks. One that has done it with Reds. These are talented breeders that exhibit their birds.
I know one that is working on a project with Barred Rocks now, and the F3s look very promising. And they are laying by 20wks.

So I agree that it can be done, and their is nothing wrong with doing it.

A friend of mine had some of Ideal's dark reds. They laid well. The were slow to feather, but they did mature at a reasonable rate. They appeared to me to have been crossed strains already. I was gifted a good (not great) Red cockerel, and we used him on his hens. By the third generation, they were a pretty good looking flock that performed well. They could have won at fairs etc, but I would not have been interested in showing one. It would have taken a long time to get them there, and probably have required another outcross.
The point is the same though. It has been, and can be done.

It would be suicidal to do it with difficult colors. A simple color like dominant white etc. would limit the points of selection. These birds were rarely ever considered purely production fowl anyways.

I would not recommend it to someone that wanted to exhibit their birds. Those that have pulled that off are the exception. Then I have wondered if the desired improvement was only marginal, when it would seam that the temptation would be to exclusively breed back to one side. It is difficult to say. I do not know what their experiences, and results were.

I guess if I have a point, is that it could be put to good use for some. It could even be considered an admirable effort, if ten years from now, they had something worth talking about. It would certainly require a lot of hatching to insure that the desired improvements were made, and that they were brought back to any level of perceived quality.

 

[gjensen]

"The best hope that the breed's have is that their is a continued interest in exhibiting the birds. That is what saved them before this boom of interest took place, and that is what will save them when this surge of interest settles. And it will. The public will move on to slay other imagined dragons, and much of the backyard poultry community will be put off by birds getting sick. Killing them. Growing weary of cleaning coops from year to year while paying more for their eggs than they would at Walmart. It may be that we will not be able to continue to afford the luxury of this hobby."

Have not finished reading through everything yet, but the "imagined dragons" cracked me up. So well written and true in most cases. But, in this case, I disagree. At least, for the people who eat their chickens. Most of the folks will fall be the wayside, no doubt, but many will not. It's hard to explain, but it is just something you feel and you know what you are doing is good and true. I am aquiring skills now that will last a life time. I meet people from a variety of backgrounds that I know are committed to a new way of life. There are health, environmental, political, humane and for me even religious reasons why this is a credible practice.

I think that is a good point.

I also agree that the Why we are interested is relevant.

I do still see what kept good birds around when there was not as much interest. Talented breeders that exhibited their birds, and associated with other like minded people. It was not the hatcheries, homesteaders, or backyarders. The later two are consumers. The first two are producers, and only the original preserved anything worth discussing.

 

[Fentress]

I agree with you. Maybe, that will change in the future, But, for now I have a pic of a BR Cockerel, bred by Jamie Duckworth and soon to be eaten by yours truly. At 33 weeks he weighed 6 lbs, 14oz. without neck and organs. Not bad, at least he can lie flat on his back. Some of the hatchery birds would rock/lean to one side (pathetic). I will separate the K's next year, maybe restrict their range some, and pay closer attention to their growith curve. I don't think this guy put on much weight within the last month. Check out the deep/long breast. These birds have no more than a 2 finger "capacity". I thought Hogan recommended increased capacity for meat birds as well as the layers. the breeding guidelines for meat birds on the Breed Conservancy web site reccommends a deep breast, for obvious reasons, more breast, then hopefully more meat. ONe thing that concerns me is that the pelvic bone is curved inward. Is that associated with a thick pelvis and heavy set bird? Supposedly, the curved pelvis is indicative of poor egg production.

 

[Lacy Blues]

I have had only male birds with pelvic bones that curved inwards. But I've had others that were straighter as well. I cannot recall if they were from the same family or not. In either case, I would not use a male that had pelvic bones like that so the fact that he has been culled is a good thing.

I like the fact he can lay flat on his back too! That speaks well for his conformation. Just check the bones on your males as well as your females for capacity. A male with two fingers is pretty good.

 

[LindaB220]

I got an email just this past week from someone doing this very thing.

Our hens are in the nest boxes all the time either roosting or digging around in the bedding, so it wouldn't work very well for us. I'm thinking of trying the old food color in the vent thing to see how well it works, since we do small group mating not pair mating. Just to get an idea of which hen the eggs belong to instead of wondering which 3 or 4 hens it came from.

Instructions please.

I don't have a ton of birds so this might be my option.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Just so you know Linda, this method does not work well. I have birds that lay white eggs so I thought for sure it would be easy to see colored streaks on the eggs. NOT. They either pooped the dye out or it was a long time before they laid their eggs. I put the food dye in the vents of every hen every morning and I still needed a very bright light to be able to see colored streaks on the shell.

 

[Maggiesdad]

Just so you know Linda, this method does not work well. I have birds that lay white eggs so I thought for sure it would be easy to see colored streaks on the eggs. NOT. They either pooped the dye out or it was a long time before they laid their eggs. I put the food dye in the vents of every hen every morning and I still needed a very bright light to be able to see colored streaks on the shell.

This^
That whole egg delivery deal prolapses out of the vent when the hen lays, that's why the eggs are laid clean w/bloom. Unless the dye was placed in the shell gland, it would never come near the egg.