Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[Lacy Blues]

All I know is that I held the hens upside down and dripped the dye into the vent. The vent was "working" the whole time, much like after being mated. I don't know if the dye made it into the shell gland or not.

 

[LindaB220]

Instructions please.

I don't have a ton of birds so this might be my option.

Well, that's a no go. I was trying to avoid BeeKisseds method containing a rubber glove and a pinkie.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Probably the best way to do it would be to pen your hens individually just during breeding season. Rotate the cock between the pens. Then you can be sure about which hen laid which egg. Or if you keep two hens together and you can tell their eggs apart, you could do it that way.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Probably the best way to do it would be to pen your hens individually just during breeding season. Rotate the cock between the pens. Then you can be sure about which hen laid which egg. Or if you keep two hens together and you can tell their eggs apart, you could do it that way.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

"The best hope that the breed's have is that their is a continued interest in exhibiting the birds. That is what saved them before this boom of interest took place, and that is what will save them when this surge of interest settles. And it will. The public will move on to slay other imagined dragons, and much of the backyard poultry community will be put off by birds getting sick. Killing them. Growing weary of cleaning coops from year to year while paying more for their eggs than they would at Walmart. It may be that we will not be able to continue to afford the luxury of this hobby."

Have not finished reading through everything yet, but the "imagined dragons" cracked me up. So well written and true in most cases. But, in this case, I disagree. At least, for the people who eat their chickens. Most of the folks will fall be the wayside, no doubt, but many will not. It's hard to explain, but it is just something you feel and you know what you are doing is good and true. I am aquiring skills now that will last a life time. I meet people from a variety of backgrounds that I know are committed to a new way of life. There are health, environmental, political, humane and for me even religious reasons why this is a credible practice.

I think that is a good point.

I also agree that the Why we are interested is relevant.

I do still see what kept good birds around when there was not as much interest. Talented breeders that exhibited their birds, and associated with other like minded people. It was not the hatcheries, homesteaders, or backyarders. The later two are consumers. The first two are producers, and only the original preserved anything worth discussing.

Absolutely!

So, when I returned to teaching, my poultry-based needs changed. Production was very important to me as long as I was going to weekly markets, but when I stopped the markets my need for countless dozens altered--pretty quickly.

I had to decide what I wanted. I realized that by selecting for production first, I was always going to be selecting away from SOP requirements for the breed, which ultimately is their blueprint for beauty. I wanted birds that looked like old-school birds, and that was going to require SOP breeding. I realized that I had to first set the SOP traits and then move towards the productive traits. I wanted productive, standard-bred birds, and the way to get that is first to develop a line of standard-bred birds and then to breed them towards productivity.

Currently I'm still in phase one. My Anconas are not as productive as they used to be, and it's noticeable. They are, however, the best Anconas I've ever seen, and others in the know have said as much. They're not yet where I want them; it will still take some more time. On older breeder recently lamented that he thought it sad that the Ancona had gone so downhill, that he used to be able to hatch 30 a year and therewith made Master Breeder. He was, of course, riding an old wave; that was before Anconas had hit rock bottom. Now they have to be rebuilt trait by trait, and that takes a long time.

My Dorkings are no better; it has taken, and will take, a long time. With the distinct decrease in interest in exhibition poultry from the 70's through today, we lost a gold mine. Those strains had been built over decades, one trait at a time, and they were masterpieces; however, the vast majority of them are gone. Another old-timer joined in the conversation and add that he had grown up on a standard-bred White Leghorn farm where they were trap nesting 800 pullets--can you imagine? I stated that that was, distinctly, my point. Those amazing strains of productive, standard-bred fowl were a miracle of long-term dedication.

Who knows how long it will take--many years yet, I'm sure. Currently I breed toward the SOP without a lot of thought to productivity above and beyond the basics. I can't afford that luxury. Really, neither can most they just haven't figured that out yet. If I ever were to really start to emphasize production again, I would reduce to one breed; at this point I'm fairly certain it would be the White Dorking.

These things are much more involved that we give them credit for. It is good to keep preaching to the choir, because it is the choir that sings, and we still have a long ways to go before we hit our masterpiece. This need not discourage us; indeed, it's an excellent adventure.

The above comments about the primacy of exhibition breeding cannot be overemphasized; to believe otherwise is naive. The APA and the ABA are the reason for which our cherished breeds exist and for which they will continue to exist. The reason is quite clear--they are actually about the birds themselves. It is those who love the birds qua birds that will have the longest reaching effect on the future of these breeds. Production is either the icing on the cake of substance or the product of a shell made to produce. Industry has a firm grip on the latter. Only time will tell what will happen to the former.

 

[capayvalleychick]

I realized that by selecting for production first, I was always going to be selecting away from SOP requirements for the breed, which ultimately is their blueprint for beauty.

So, you are saying that the SOP - even for the dual purpose breeds- is just breeding for beauty?

 

[Yellow House Farm]

So, you are saying that the SOP - even for the dual purpose breeds- is just breeding for beauty?

No, definitely not. The SOP for most breeds promotes a phenotype that is going to be basically productive, if selection is done wisely, meaning if shape is due to fleshing and bone structure and not just to feather hiding an abysmal frame.

These birds should be basically productive, but basically productive in the old days is talking 150-200 eggs. Now, for most situations, that's just fine; for something more commercially bent 200+ is certainly more desirable.

Once one attains stock that breeds relatively true to SOP requirements, one can start being pickier.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

I would add, though, that "beautiful" chickens are extremely rare. I don't ever think in the terms of "just for beauty". A truly beautiful specimen of a breed is so darned rare as to make it a gem. Sloppiness in fowl is by far the rule. A beautiful chicken comes from proportion (weight), type, symmetry, and vigor--that ain't no easy trick.

 

[RedRidge]

I think beauty and production can go hand in hand easier with the more established breeds. Because production is so high on my priority list that show stock and breeders are "only" chosen from the most productive, earliest laying birds, I can still have competitive show stock because it's such an established breed. But with my other breed/project birds I'm still hoping with each generation to get something that isn't so hard on the eyes that I cringe. LOL

 

[bnjrob]

Absolutely!

So, when I returned to teaching, my poultry-based needs changed. Production was very important to me as long as I was going to weekly markets, but when I stopped the markets my need for countless dozens altered--pretty quickly.

I had to decide what I wanted. I realized that by selecting for production first, I was always going to be selecting away from SOP requirements for the breed, which ultimately is their blueprint for beauty. I wanted birds that looked like old-school birds, and that was going to require SOP breeding. I realized that I had to first set the SOP traits and then move towards the productive traits. I wanted productive, standard-bred birds, and the way to get that is first to develop a line of standard-bred birds and then to breed them towards productivity.

Currently I'm still in phase one. My Anconas are not as productive as they used to be, and it's noticeable. They are, however, the best Anconas I've ever seen, and others in the know have said as much. They're not yet where I want them; it will still take some more time. On older breeder recently lamented that he thought it sad that the Ancona had gone so downhill, that he used to be able to hatch 30 a year and therewith made Master Breeder. He was, of course, riding an old wave; that was before Anconas had hit rock bottom. Now they have to be rebuilt trait by trait, and that takes a long time.

My Dorkings are no better; it has taken, and will take, a long time. With the distinct decrease in interest in exhibition poultry from the 70's through today, we lost a gold mine. Those strains had been built over decades, one trait at a time, and they were masterpieces; however, the vast majority of them are gone. Another old-timer joined in the conversation and add that he had grown up on a standard-bred White Leghorn farm where they were trap nesting 800 pullets--can you imagine? I stated that that was, distinctly, my point. Those amazing strains of productive, standard-bred fowl were a miracle of long-term dedication.

Who knows how long it will take--many years yet, I'm sure. Currently I breed toward the SOP without a lot of thought to productivity above and beyond the basics. I can't afford that luxury. Really, neither can most they just haven't figured that out yet. If I ever were to really start to emphasize production again, I would reduce to one breed; at this point I'm fairly certain it would be the White Dorking.

I'm glad you said that. It's difficult to try to excel at both SOP and production at the same time. We're putting a little more emphasis on type and size right now, but hopefully soon will be able to put more emphasis on production. Production is not the bottom of our list, but just not at the top, with trying to get our birds back into shape. It is definitely not a quick process.