Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[ericsplls]

Quote:
Actually this is not correct. Any good chicken owner will free range and have feed out when needed. Chickens in a pen are very high maintance and much more prone to disease and bugs/pest like mite and lice. Free range tend to lay more consistant due to a better diet. They grow to their max size better too. This is a known fact with many breeders. The thing is chicken feed just is not all it is cracked up to be in the full nutrition area. Chickens are omnivores therefor need meat in their diet to do real well. Most feed do not have it for cost reasons and general public ignorance. If one is feeding a all veggi diet their chickens will not be growing or producing as well as they good be.

Cybercat All of my chickens are either free range or in tractors. My statement was a little shorter than it should have been. There were several mentions of free range as an only means of nutrition during the growing season. This will work and your best birds for meat in a sustainable aspect will still grow better than the inferior ones but you can't get upset if you lose half a pound of weight at cull time as compared to the year before when the year before may have been an all you can eat buffet of browse and insects and this year they really had to work for it. It would be real easy for a new breeder to get discouraged and want to give it up when they can't figure out what they did wrong.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Quote:
Speckled Sussex are a beautiful and useful breed, one of my favorites, actually. As for frostbite, well, that will depend on a great many things, but people have been raising them in the cold for a long time. We had frostbite issues, but that's us, and may not be you. If I remember correctly, Bob has a lead on some good Speckled Sussex. It would probably be a great place to begin.

Good luck!!!!

 

[X2Farm]

Quote:
Good luck with your Speckled Sussex!!! I LOVE them! They're so big, beautiful and friendly!!! We've got several, and I've got lots of hatching/culling to do, to get closer to the SOP in type/color pattern, and hopefully by next year, our flocks will be big enough to be free ranged over the pastures

(I'd do it now, but can't afford risks involved in possibly losing my breeding stock to predation of some form!)

Bob does have a lead, I had contacted him about some a while back and got the information, let me see if I can find it for you!

Edited to add, the name he gave me was Tony Albrittion (sp?)

 

[Arielle]

THe amazing chicken--it can survive and even thrive in a great many conditions! HI! I just found this thread on heritage breeds. There is a vast difference between the high egg production birds genetically selected for hi output in a, lets face it, caged facility of thousands. It is a factory. A very efficient factory. Hens kept in a homesteading environment definitely need to have other genetic traits than high egg production or else they will not survive. Historically, a broody hen was a must; no broody hen, no more chicks. You get the idea.

I'm curious about a couple things. Does anyone know if the interest in chickens has escalated since the onset of the recession? Or is this boom in chickens an affordable hobby? Perhaps more families are realizing the wonderful benefits of eggs and meat home grown during these tough times.

To me the heritage birds should be a thrifty bird that is somewhat self sufficient, with supplemental food and basic care like assuring a water supply. That means the cost/egg should be quite economical. As the grain prices soar, It seems to me that the heritage birds are potentially at a greater advantage than the factory birds. Chickens were originally meant to live off the land with a little supervision; I'm just not sure that the super high production birds have what it takes to live off the land.

Having said that, That is where I am starting! LOL! RIR, SLW, SS, Blk Star, BA all from a big hatchery. A bit of an experiment with solid reasoning which will be blown to bits by reality most likely. My theory is to breed these birds, and the survivors get to breed again. And then breed a second flock, Buckeyes. I really have my eye on the Buckeye because it is so endangered. But I'm a little concerned that the focus is correct feather color, body shape, and characteristics that win at the shows. As a heritage bird, I want thrifty, hardy, scavenger, hawk savvy, great broody hen occassionaly. Is this the Buckeye of today . . . or only in the past. I really want to find heritage buckeyes. I would most definitely search out the best breeder of truly good Buckeyes and learn how to keep a journal recording info, and try to breed the best for my farm situation. I've heard that Mr Rhodes who developed the Rhodes line of Buckeyes isn't into breeding any more. I plan to call him this week as he lives nearby. I hope he will have time to sit and have a cup of coffee and tell me about his Buckeyes. Maybe they will be the heritage birds I'm looking for.

I remember buying my first rottweiller. THe breeder sold it to me at "pet quality" pricing because the pup wasn't perfect. That's what I wanted: a pet . . not a show dog. I did get bitten by the show bug though, and she won her class in Boston! THe bottom line is while breeding for the best, the best should be kept for breeding and rest . . . go on to other jobs. The same for chickens. Keep the best for breeding, the average for eggs and the rest for pets or dinner.

I know I've ranted on a bit . . .hope it wasn't too boring. The heritage breeds are the better choice for the small farms of today. Just my opinion.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Quote:
Greetings Arielle! Welcome to the thread.

Yes, the interest in poultry continues to rise, at least in our area, which is the extent of my observation. I just gave a seminar to just shy of 100 people who were looking to either begin or deepen their e xperience with poultry.

Yes, heritage poultry have a long history of self-sufficiency. We have to remember that current grain mixes are all born of the 20th century. Beforehand, it was necessary to create one's own grain. Moreover, for those venerable breeds that predate the Industrial Revloution, they had to do almost everything on their own.

You have a selection of breeds there. I couldn't tell by your wording if you intend to breed them all together, which would land you in the vast unpredictability of muttville. Do you have a favorite that could lead your show?

 

[WallTenters]

Quote:
I am sure that if you talk to a quality breeder of Buckeyes, they can help you know what you're getting into. They are beautiful birds - I have only seen a few (a friend had them as a side breeding project for a few years). Even in a show quality breeder flock, maybe one out of every ten chicks is going to be kept. Maybe one out of 100 chicks will be shown, because others have faults or are too busy breeding to go to shows, or are too precious to risk being damaged, stolen or getting sick at a show.

For some reason I think many backyard breeders think show birds don't produce - what? Talk to the breeders. Ask them about the vitality of their flock. Ask them about the honest faults in their flock. Usually, the breeder is harder on their flock than any judge could be. Tell them you're interested in preserving the breed, and that a few faults aren't going to shy you away as a customer, so they know you won't walk out the door as soon as they mention they have to pull two black feathers in each hen before showing.

I have talked to many that have honestly told me they have some vitality issues - and that's fine - I'm wanting these birds to integrate into my current stock, so that outcross should bring up vitality in a major way. I have talked to many more that say they've got production and foraging down pat in their flock, but they've had some coloring issues in the cockerels or comb issues or some other trait that the breed calls for. That's fine - I can again work with that and breeding them to the less vigorous but better looking birds will give me a superior bird all the way around - if I only keep that <10% that have high quality from both parents. I thank them for being upfront - and they know it's nothing to be ashamed of, it's just where their flock is at it's current project state.

It seems from the breeders I've talked to that many go through stages. First you're starting out and your birds aren't so hot, or maybe just not enough of them (if you got quality stock). You breed for a few years, cull a whole lot, and you start to have a decent flock. You've increased production and kept vitality in mind because you need every egg you can get - if you only get 10 eggs per hatch, that's a whole lot of work to keep one chick! Finally after several more years you have some really nice quality birds, but maybe the vitality has gone down, or they aren't the true heritage forager the breed was meant to be. You now work on that. After about thirty+ years you might have a flock that is a nice representative for it's breed in both conformation, color and foraging/broodiness qualities. And still you'll have to keep selectively breeding over and over again to keep these traits active. The impossible goal is the perfect bird to represent the breed, but that's what we're all aiming at.

So from what I've learned through talking to folks and getting started in breeding myself is... A true quality breeder's birds will produce better, look better, and act better than a backyard hooligan hen. I'm not saying the hooligan hen doesn't have her place, but we're talking about heritage breeds here - so let's try to keep them looking, acting and tasting like the breeds they are. Chose a realistic breed for your needs, treat them well, breed them right, and the traits you're looking for will shine through in the breed you've chosen.

 

[MyKidLuvsGreenEgz]

Quote:
Actually this is not correct. Any good chicken owner will free range and have feed out when needed. Free range tend to lay more consistent due to a better diet. They grow to their max size better too. This is a known fact with many breeders. The thing is chicken feed just is not all it is cracked up to be in the full nutrition area. Chickens are omnivores therefor need meat in their diet to do real well. Most feed do not have it for cost reasons and general public ignorance. If one is feeding a all veggi diet their chickens will not be growing or producing as well as they good be.

<SNIP>

Also, the turkey starter is a little higher in protein than the adults need, yet the game bird ration, with lower protein, has corn as the primary ingredient. I've also considered using Calf Manna as a protein source, but don't know how to make sure each chicken gets 1 tablespoon a day.
I will read back through this thread now and hope someone here can give me some advice.

Kim

=============
A good source of protein is eggs: just be sure to scramble or boil so they don't recognize them as what they lay. I usually scramble with the crushed shells (calcium) and sometimes cheese (calcium) and sometimes herbs and/or flax seeds. They love it and it's healthy for them.

 

[saladin]

Quote:
I am sure that if you talk to a quality breeder of Buckeyes, they can help you know what you're getting into. They are beautiful birds - I have only seen a few (a friend had them as a side breeding project for a few years). Even in a show quality breeder flock, maybe one out of every ten chicks is going to be kept. Maybe one out of 100 chicks will be shown, because others have faults or are too busy breeding to go to shows, or are too precious to risk being damaged, stolen or getting sick at a show.

For some reason I think many backyard breeders think show birds don't produce - what? Talk to the breeders. Ask them about the vitality of their flock. Ask them about the honest faults in their flock. Usually, the breeder is harder on their flock than any judge could be. Tell them you're interested in preserving the breed, and that a few faults aren't going to shy you away as a customer, so they know you won't walk out the door as soon as they mention they have to pull two black feathers in each hen before showing.

I have talked to many that have honestly told me they have some vitality issues - and that's fine - I'm wanting these birds to integrate into my current stock, so that outcross should bring up vitality in a major way. I have talked to many more that say they've got production and foraging down pat in their flock, but they've had some coloring issues in the cockerels or comb issues or some other trait that the breed calls for. That's fine - I can again work with that and breeding them to the less vigorous but better looking birds will give me a superior bird all the way around - if I only keep that <10% that have high quality from both parents. I thank them for being upfront - and they know it's nothing to be ashamed of, it's just where their flock is at it's current project state.

It seems from the breeders I've talked to that many go through stages. First you're starting out and your birds aren't so hot, or maybe just not enough of them (if you got quality stock). You breed for a few years, cull a whole lot, and you start to have a decent flock. You've increased production and kept vitality in mind because you need every egg you can get - if you only get 10 eggs per hatch, that's a whole lot of work to keep one chick! Finally after several more years you have some really nice quality birds, but maybe the vitality has gone down, or they aren't the true heritage forager the breed was meant to be. You now work on that. After about thirty+ years you might have a flock that is a nice representative for it's breed in both conformation, color and foraging/broodiness qualities. And still you'll have to keep selectively breeding over and over again to keep these traits active. The impossible goal is the perfect bird to represent the breed, but that's what we're all aiming at.

So from what I've learned through talking to folks and getting started in breeding myself is... A true quality breeder's birds will produce better, look better, and act better than a backyard hooligan hen. I'm not saying the hooligan hen doesn't have her place, but we're talking about heritage breeds here - so let's try to keep them looking, acting and tasting like the breeds they are. Chose a realistic breed for your needs, treat them well, breed them right, and the traits you're looking for will shine through in the breed you've chosen.

Now that is about as close to accurate as I've seen so far! Excellent and Truthfull too (and in the same post).

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Amen to that (and Howdy, Saladin!). There are just so many details to keep in mind, and they cannot all be done at once. Right now, I'm happy with egg-production. Last year's pullets have been laying strong since coming into lay without light. Selecting for egg size is going well. This last Sunday I weighed out the eggs to be set and, out of 7 1/2 dozen, only pulled 6 that were under "large." Our eggs are running about 50% large and 50% extra-large. Carcass presentation has improved each year.

This year, I hope to start working on some aesthetics. I'm starting to turn my gaze to feathering, both for quality and production. I had the impression that Bob's thread has a section dedicated to feather quality. I'm trying to find the time to go through it and fin the page(s) where he deals with it. The fine points of feathering still elude me. For all of my reading, I'm still a visual learner. I'm hoping to bribe a poultry friend to come up this late summer/fall to go over birds and talk feathering with me.

Toes are another issue. Getting five toes is easy enough; getting five toes that are completely separate and facing in the right direction isn't always. Poco a poco, little by little.

Thank goodness it's about the journey. For any of us dealing with these particularly rare breeds, it had better be, for this journey might take a life-time.

As we speak, the hatcher is filling with this week's chicks. I'm excited to see what will come.

 

[saladin]

Hey Yellow House,

Still got snow? We are have cooled off to the mid 60s this week: down from 80s last week. Everybody is bundling up again. You'd love it! lol.