Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[Arielle]

I found this old post to be very sobering. ANd need to think on this very carefully. ( Originally posted about 2 years ago.)

Hmmm...so I was driving back from a visit with my God-son, and I was thinking about this thread. I was feeling that I wasn't quite communicating what it was that I meant. I knew I was talking about one breed and the need for the specialization, and yet I didn't want to alienate. Then I had a bit of an a-ha moment. Perhaps, I hadn't made it clear that our approach has a rather commercial bent, which changes the game plan.

The goal of our farm is to maintain a "closed flock", a flock that rarely, if ever, and then only judiciously brings in outside stock. The reasons would be three with the first leading to the following two: genetic protection, flock health, product stability.

But first I should explain. When your goal is for your own table, well then your table's law rules. If you want four different fowls--great. If you don't care about any of it and you just want a pretty sight, great. If you want one fowl and consistency, that's cool. However, when the majority of the meat you produce is destined for sale at market, things change. When a customer tries your product and they like it, they want to return and buy it again, but they want the second to be like the first. Customers want the dependability of consistent quality.
It is a very strange sensation when you put that roaster down on the table in front of your customer. There is silence; all gimmick, all fanciful notions are gone. They look at the presentation. They see what they want, or they don't. A heritage roaster is going for $5.99/lb. That customer is about to give you over twenty dollar for that roaster. Is is worth it? You have 100 pounds of chicken to turn over that day, 75 pounds of duck, some turkey, some geese, 50 dozen chicken eggs, 35 dozen duck eggs, and then other product. Customers are coming back, and they want the quality that you've delivered in the past. They have guests coming on Saturday evening, and they've chosen your Heritage roaster as the centerpiece above the elk available two stalls down, the heritage beef staeks, the goat sausage, the locally caught lobster, the leg of lamb; your roaster's it, because they've tried it, loved it, and want to share the experience. They buy it, take it home, defrost it, and what if it's not what they had expected. Problem.
It's on this level that farming can be different than homesteading. You're about to slaughter 300 roasters that you need to sell at a profit. If customers don't know what they're going to get when they visit your stall; they're quick to become gun shy. If they get a Rock one time, a Dorking the next time, and a Cornish the third time, you'll quickly become "the neat little farm but you never really know what you're going to get." We're all different, but that's not the marketing position I'd choose to hold. Consistency is key.

Here's where things get complicated. Consistency in poultry is the fruit of directed effort in breeding. The difficulty is by choosing to work with heritage poultry, one is choosing to work outside of the realm of hatchery consistency, which has been focused on the perfection of commercial crosses for decades now. These crosses keep you dependent on the hatcheries, but they deliver. They provide you with consistent quality, be it for eggs or for meat. When you order their crosses, you get what you order. With heritage fowl, it's more risky. You order Dorkings; they grow with marked variability in weight, breadth, and depth. You order White Wyandottes, many of which are deformed and unthrifty. You order Australorps that lay very well, but the egg size is only medium. You buy Columbian Wyandottes with a high percentage of crooked breast bones and small eggs. You get some Anconas that have been bred indoors for too many generations and can't keep up with the cold. You order Salmon Faverolles that turn out to be half Mahogany Faverolles. Your Speckled Sussex are flat breasted. Your Houdans are half way to being bantams....what's a farmer to do? Well, use the factory crosses, of course....or......

You decide what you're going for and what you need: levels of productivity, better for meat, better for eggs, rate of maturation, meat quality, foraging ability, historical or cultural significance. You line them all up, and then you prioritize them. You pick the breed that best meets your goals, and then you settle in to create your own consistency. You recognize ahead of time that you need to be able to close your flock, which means you must have the level of biodiversity needed to be genetically self-sufficient. You are about to put a lot of time into this investment. Over time your stock is going to be exactly where you want it, where your clientele expects it to be. The importantion of outside stock can throw your genetics for a loop and damage your business, undermining seasons of work. New stock can introduce disease, as well. On a homestead, you might see past these things, but on a farm they are moments of true anxiety.

The kind of breeding that is necessary to do this requires focus on many details and requires a depth of selection. I used to dream of doing it for several breeds, but as time slowly reveals the kind of commitment and effort that is needed to do this with even one breed, it makes two seem like a pretty steep climb and three would be daunting. Sometimes, I wonder if I could put this much effort into the Dorkings, while also maintaing a couple of hobby lines in another breed or two, we'll see.

 

[joanie_maine]

Thanks for reposting tat post - consistancy is important in most endeavors

I found this old post to be very sobering. ANd need to think on this very carefully. ( Originally posted about 2 years ago.)
Quote:

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Well, two years later, I'd say it again but, perhaps, with exclamation points. The great breeds of the past will only have a worthy future via specialization.

 

[Robert Blosl]

Specialization is tender loving care of your flock you own. I remember reading some of the old Rhode Island REd Journals in the 1940s and the old men use to say you must be good Stewart's of the breed.

That's about all you can do is keep the breed going, try not to revert to the scrubs that they used to make the breed, that means you better have a standard of perfection to keep you on track on what you should be keeping and not keeping. Example: I got to get rid of some Buff Brahma bantams. I got some males that are nice but lack feet feathering. They are call feather legged. I have a young male that I hatched from a cold cock bird and his feathering is the best I ever saw. Width of body and width of skull is important so after looking at five males I have decided to put my chips on this young male as I would be going back-words using the other males. In white leghorns, I have a male that has splendid type but he has a bad comb. I could mate him to his niece who has a great comb and her father had a great comb to compensate for his fault. If I am not sure what to do I will hold him over one year and then see what shows up or now get rid of him. I will keep him and hold him over. I have a great uncle I am going to use this year on two females and then I got four more to look at. So many good males and so few females and then what makes it worse my partner in this breed gave them up. So what in the heck am I fooling with them in the first place. However, if you pray to the GODS in chicken heaven he may send you a new partner.

I am about to send two pairs of white leghorns back to my home state of Washington next to my twin city that I lived in and a fellow is going to take over my old strain that I think is about 50 years old. Once he gets going I may find one more and then I can get out of the breed and focus on my Reds and White Rock. Yet I still have a few Buff Brahmas but I can manage three breeds alright.

Being a good Stewart of the Breed. Read up on that if you can and see what the old timers tell you. In regards to feed. I try to give them a good all around balanced meat type protein feed. If they get a little free range with bugs and grass that helps allot. I feed my birds a game bird food because the grains and food in general puts a better finish on my birds feathers. Trying to grow your own feed and make your own mixture is a pain in the butt. I dont know anyone who is in this game like me who does it and are successful. Many do it but they just maintain the breed and if they show their birds they do not make it to champion row. However, if you don't show your birds, you don't breed by the standard you just collect breeds like hundreds of people do on this site, disregard anything I say as it don't mean nothing. What I preach is Preservation of old breeds and trying to keep the best gene pools going that are available. There will always be hatcheries available to sell the barn yard birds and breeds.

 

[ashandvine]

Being a good steward is complex and not easily learned even in a few years. I find that my interests in chickens have changed and what I thought would be a simple enough venture based on my history keeping small flocks for eggs. I am still working on many of the 'systems' questions. Arielle's concern for how to maximize the most out of our own land is a question many are asking and, if not, they will be soon. Departing from commercial grain is a big piece of independence.
The truth is that homesteading works best in a community of like minded individuals so not everything has to be done by you (example; YellowHouse raises chickens really well so Arielle can focus on raising sheep really well and X raises hay, and Y raises, makes or fixes ? then we all trade.) It used to be that neighbors helped each other. Boy, I miss barn raisings. I want to raise meat here but for now its got to be crosses. I have pure Dorkings, Marans, Favs, one Orp etc but only a few of these breeds right now and breeding for SOP AND meat are where I currently wonder how to manage. Can I do both? How do I make enough money to support just keeping a breed for the breeds sake? I have Russian Orloff's which I am speaking of. I want to work with them and sincerely hope to do a good job. But I want to eat and live a standard of practices that reflect both my principles and my pocketbook. There's nine acres here... and just me and the kids to work them. I intend to plant grains but here again I wonder if anyone really kept large flocks before 'industrial chicken production?' Are these large production plants and the graineries that supply them a result of the WW I or II? Our complete dependance is part of my problem and concern. Then how to market the birds that are hatched here, crosses or no. What would people think of a big Chicken Tasting, a lot like a wine tasting? I know I need one... of each.

 

[Arielle]

I see the value of purchased grains; I do not live in the grain belt of the US and I have a mill that will deliver. It will also make custom blends if I buy several ton. My point is how to plant or promote native plats that shelter and supplement the birds. I am torn between freeranging and penned birds.

I know that crossing two animals results in heterosis; where the offspring will grow faster than the parent stock. I"m trying to to economical as pinching pennies is not very fun. What I learned at university is the value of crossing pure bred stock to produce most of the food animals we eat. IT is the purebred producers that breed the parent stock for the cross breeding. THese co-exist together, like a pyramid. SO CO-exist isn't the best word--they are dependent on each other. THe top of the pyramid is where the few numbers of purebreds reside.

THe really flexible aspect of poultry is the number of offspring a parental pair can produce: chickens about 100 chicks per year; Far differnt than a horse ONE, a cow, one.

Here is where I am at. Can I maintain two old heritage lines and then cross them for a consitent marketable product? THe cornish cross is the consistent product of two created lines that cross very well. Is there any historical crosses that the old timers used??

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Here is where I am at. Can I maintain two old heritage lines and then cross them for a consitent marketable product? THe cornish cross is the consistent product of two created lines that cross very well. Is there any historical crosses that the old timers used??

The Delaware was a broiler from the barred Plymouth Rock crossed with the New Hampshire.

The Orpington was also a "meat" bird once.

 

[Robert Blosl]

i got a message today asking can you make money with Heritage Chickens. I thought about it and wrote back maybe.

Normally its a hobby. Yes if you sell eggs for a $1. each and chicks for say $8 you can make money. Then you got overhead.

Normally I loose money each year. This year I sold enough chickens and chicks to pay for about 3/4 of my feed bill.

Many think there is money to be made in poultry selling birds dressed maybe or yard eggs. I have no idea.

Sometimes I think the most of the folks on this board are better off just getting feed store stuff and raising them the way they want however they want. Let the .05% of the people fool with keeping old breeds alive for the future. My views are changing as I go into my 3rd year on this board. The proof of the pudding is to find out what these souls will be doing in two to three years.

Many are called but few are chosen on of my mentors once told me.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

There are several crosses that are documented and were used regionally for some time. Still, the possibility of such a cross presupposes the exixtence of worthy strain of purered stock that can then be used for makig meat X's. I think that most of us are still working on step one.

On another note, selection really does work. We've had long-time customer remark on how they've noticed that our Dorkngs are improving in meat qualities. That's exciting. It's just my two cents and only worth so much, but at this point, I think that folk are better off just seecting one breed, getting breeder stock if available, and then they can begin selection.

 

[bnjrob]

Being a good steward is complex and not easily learned even in a few years. I find that my interests in chickens have changed and what I thought would be a simple enough venture based on my history keeping small flocks for eggs. I am still working on many of the 'systems' questions. Arielle's concern for how to maximize the most out of our own land is a question many are asking and, if not, they will be soon. Departing from commercial grain is a big piece of independence.
The truth is that homesteading works best in a community of like minded individuals so not everything has to be done by you (example; YellowHouse raises chickens really well so Arielle can focus on raising sheep really well and X raises hay, and Y raises, makes or fixes ? then we all trade.) It used to be that neighbors helped each other. Boy, I miss barn raisings. I want to raise meat here but for now its got to be crosses. I have pure Dorkings, Marans, Favs, one Orp etc but only a few of these breeds right now and breeding for SOP AND meat are where I currently wonder how to manage. Can I do both? How do I make enough money to support just keeping a breed for the breeds sake? I have Russian Orloff's which I am speaking of. I want to work with them and sincerely hope to do a good job. But I want to eat and live a standard of practices that reflect both my principles and my pocketbook. There's nine acres here... and just me and the kids to work them. I intend to plant grains but here again I wonder if anyone really kept large flocks before 'industrial chicken production?' Are these large production plants and the graineries that supply them a result of the WW I or II? Our complete dependance is part of my problem and concern. Then how to market the birds that are hatched here, crosses or no. What would people think of a big Chicken Tasting, a lot like a wine tasting? I know I need one... of each.

I think that families kept flocks big enough for their needs. But they didn't care for their chickens like we do. They fed them scraps and the chickens foraged. I'm pretty sure that we spend a lot more on feed and equipment (feeders, waterers, housing, etc) than our ancestors ever did.

Chicken tasting would be a great idea. The ALBC has some resource material on chicken tasting.