Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[bnjrob]

There is a farm about an hour from me that makes money off of "organic" meat and poultry. But it's a niche and they sell to the community in Dallas which is why I think that they can make money off of their animals. They also seem to have a good size operation going to, not something in their backyard. I know that if I were to buy from them, I'd have to set aside money specifically to get their pricey meat products.

I think I would be happy just being able to not have to buy eggs and chicken anymore - I think it would be difficult for me to make a profit as a business. Haven't had to buy eggs for several months now but don't have enough chickens to be able to keep up with our consumption of meat.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Chicken tasting would be a great idea. The ALBC has some resource material on chicken tasting.

For meat, our most important criterion is meat quality, and for that we have found the Dorking, the La Fleche, and the Houdan to be the most delicious. Having said that, this does not mean that we have found other breed to be impalatable.

The ALBC chicken taste test yielded Dorkings as the winner.

 

[bnjrob]

That's interesting. I think it would be neat to taste test different varieties. We've eaten one of our Java cockerels and it was really good compared to eating store bought chicken.

 

[cgmccary]

Quote: BTW, Your analysis of that taste test in the SPPA Bulletin a few years back was very insightful, educational, well thought out . . . certainly wroth repeating. The ALBC taste test only tested the Dorking (of the Dorking-Houdan-La Fleche), correct? All breeds were tested at the same age (16 weeks?) except the Cornish-Rock X???

I have, of course, had my Buckeye & I like it charcoal-grilled or in dumplings the best. I have also had Java. I am looking forward to trying my La Fleche as a whole new experience.

What age did you process your La Fleche? When do the slower growing breeds reach their best quality?

 

[Arielle]

There are several crosses that are documented and were used regionally for some time. Still, the possibility of such a cross presupposes the exixtence of worthy strain of purered stock that can then be used for makig meat X's. I think that most of us are still working on step one.

On another note, selection really does work. We've had long-time customer remark on how they've noticed that our Dorkngs are improving in meat qualities. That's exciting. It's just my two cents and only worth so much, but at this point, I think that folk are better off just seecting one breed, getting breeder stock if available, and then they can begin selection.

THe quality of the crosses will be limited by the quality of the parent stock. I have been energized by Kathy IMO's project of crossing two high quality lines to produce her Dels. Seems like this may be a magical cross.

Mr Reese apparently has BR selected for eating qualities. DOes anyone have info on crossing cornish w/ BR-- I'm meaning the non commerical lines of course. I'm wondering if the commercial selection started because this was a magical cross to begin with.

I'm sorry I did not acknowledge your efforts at improving the meat qualities of your Dorkings. Absolutely, selection will work IF the genes are still in the population. ANd of course only by applying pressure do you get to find out. Glad you are making good progress.

Quote: To add to both statements: I suspect there is a balance between providing feed and expecting birds to completely fend for themselves. By providing shelter, food opportunties and clean water I would expect birds to provide more rather than less. THe whole premise of domesticated stock is that we humans provide food, shelter and protection. THe chickens or any other domestic animal fare better with good management and we get more food from them.

There is a farm about an hour from me that makes money off of "organic" meat and poultry. But it's a niche and they sell to the community in Dallas which is why I think that they can make money off of their animals. They also seem to have a good size operation going to, not something in their backyard. I know that if I were to buy from them, I'd have to set aside money specifically to get their pricey meat products.

I think I would be happy just being able to not have to buy eggs and chicken anymore - I think it would be difficult for me to make a profit as a business. Haven't had to buy eggs for several months now but don't have enough chickens to be able to keep up with our consumption of meat.

It is nice to hear that a farm is profitable. I do think that because of the extra costs in producing this kind of food, it will be the folks with the higher incomes that can afford this food. I don't think this is a new phenomenon.

THen there is the opposite set up. Over the last 50 plus years food has become very cheap because of the very feed effecient stock and the methods of housing and feeding these animals. The cost of grain had actually decreased significantly over these years, because of the oversized farm equipment run on cheap fuel, and the improved seed stock to feed our commercially produced livestock. THis is the cheapest meat to produce; and inspite of the huge increases in grain costs in recent years and the conseqential increase in meat prices, this food is still plenty cheap. I'm not here to argue ethics, or taste, I just wanted to point out the two extremes in production.

For now I"m trying to produce healthier meat for my family but I would like to have it be less expensive than it currently is. I have come to understand that even poor people cannot afford to keep livestock. I have come to understand that even in a 3rd world country you must have enough extras to pay for the food animals require. THis has me rethinking many aspects of rearing animals.

MOre food for thought.

 

[ashandvine]

Alright, I have to call out the elephant: IS food really cheaper or is this another bubble that is going to burst?
We import so much and grow how little of ouro wn and then there is the cost of the fuel invovled. The US still has some of the cheapest oil/gas prices anywhere but that can't hold. Already this past year there have been two hikes in food at the markets. Everyone noticed the second one around here but few noticed the first. I am a conscious shopper. I notice when grapes are 99 cents regularly for a few years and at seasons, then regularly 1.20 and now 2$ in the same seasons. I notice less foods stocked in the produce departments. Grocers are watching their bottom lines too. Food has been a luxury, like oil, that the US has enjoyed for years and that is slowly crumbling.

As for the bird tasting- I did read some of the information in the past which is why I have here some of the birds I do. I don't have the right female female ration sometimes to create sex links but it interests me, the idea Yellow House stated, of keeping a pure line or lines and then creating food out of them. There are farms who sell to niche markets and I don't mind being one of those. I am not foolish enough to think we would make enough money to really live. I too want to be able to eat a few, not buy eggs and if I saw overhead that would be enough. I told hubby last night that if I had to get rid of all my birds but one breed I know I would be keeping the one that costs me money because they are the ones that need the most. I have people asking me for birds, layers and meat alike, but once you sell someone a layer they have it. They won't need another for a while so the market fluxtuates a little but that consistency piece ... consistency in product ... is it really a build it and the consistent consumer will come? How does that start? A little sign by the driveway saying, meat birds here? Yellowhouse, I have read a lot of this thread, nearly all, but haven't seen much about how you started the process of moving from homesteading to farm business. I think that would fit in this thread nicely. (nudge)

 

[Robert Blosl]

http://www.heritagechef.com/Heritage_Recipes.html

Frank Reese told me he selects his breeders so they taste good. He has entered his chickens and turkeys in eating contests and has done well. He told me its not in the feeding that improves the taste but the breeding. That was the first for me to here.

There is a term in breeding I learned from some old men who I interviewed be for they died that they used in breeding Rhode Island Reds. They called them Laws or like Laws in Breeding.

The number one Law in breeding is using the fit of the fittest principle.

If they can not survive on their own and have to be doped up with shots and supplements you don't want them as breeders. So in selecting my breeders I looked for these traits. Much like a Hawk up in a tree who wants to get one of your birds he is going to pick the stupidest or weakest of the birds. I also did this in picking my breeders. Males had to be gal lent but not aggressive towards me or children like most commercial strains of Rhode Island Reds. The females had to get up early in the mourning and go to roost late at night. I looked for length of toe nails as females with shorter toe nails worked harder to look for bugs and such. They where also the ones who lay ed the best and I picked the ones who had better feather quality and matured faster than other females.

If you had a strain of say real good Rhode Island Reds that lay ed well feathered well and looked super good in the show room and won. You could sell your eggs and started chicks for a very good price and then help save you money to buy feed. Then people would come to your home to buy adult birds and pay a hefty price up to $75 per bird. Some guys get $100 per bird.

That with your chick and egg sales to beginners along with selling your extra eggs to locals for say $3. a dozen on the off season and your butchered males for say $15 each or more you could make money with a good breed of chickens. You could not make the profit from Product on Reds as no buddy would pay you the price for the eggs or chicks like a Standard Breed Bird.

That's the way I see it. Pick a breed that is in the demand and if the breed becomes over populated and every buddy has them then find a new breed like Mottled Javas or Light Sussex and start promoting and breeding them.

This is my view on how beginners can make a profit with poultry. In bantams like I have I dont have the feed bill like I had with my large fowl reds. Yet I get the same price for eggs and stared chicks as I did with my large fowl. They eat one fifth of what my large fowl ate and take less room. Therefor I clear more profit from raising bantams than I do large fowl reds. I can even put a pair in a small box and ship it to a beginner for say $50 and I dont have to travel to a show which takes away my profit. It all sounds good on paper but I have not made a profit in 20 years but I hope to this coming year. I hope to clear $100. bob

Many of my views I learned from reading books from poultrymen like John Robinson who was a great writer in the 1920s.

 

[ashandvine]

http://www.heritagechef.com/Heritage_Recipes.html

The number one Law in breeding is using the fit of the fittest principle.

If you had a strain of say real good Rhode Island Reds that lay ed well feathered well and looked super good in the show room and won. You could sell your eggs and started chicks for a very good price and then help save you money to buy feed. Then people would come to your home to buy adult birds and pay a hefty price up to $75 per bird. Some guys get $100 per bird.

That with your chick and egg sales to beginners along with selling your extra eggs to locals for say $3. a dozen on the off season and your butchered males for say $15 each or more you could make money with a good breed of chickens. You could not make the profit from Product on Reds as no buddy would pay you the price for the eggs or chicks like a Standard Breed Bird.

That's the way I see it. Pick a breed that is in the demand and if the breed becomes over populated and every buddy has them then find a new breed like Mottled Javas or Light Sussex and start promoting and breeding them.

This is my view on how beginners can make a profit with poultry. In bantams like I have I dont have the feed bill like I had with my large fowl reds. Yet I get the same price for eggs and stared chicks as I did with my large fowl. They eat one fifth of what my large fowl ate and take less room. Therefor I clear more profit from raising bantams than I do large fowl reds. I can even put a pair in a small box and ship it to a beginner for say $50 and I dont have to travel to a show which takes away my profit. It all sounds good on paper but I have not made a profit in 20 years but I hope to this coming year. I hope to clear $100. bob

Many of my views I learned from reading books from poultrymen like John Robinson who was a great writer in the 1920s.

Thank you Mr Bob. I have read your testimony in several places about nails and roosting habits, ranging habits and the running test to find the fittest. I'm listening!

IDK if I can go bantam. I love the big birds too much and there does seem to be a call here for the meat. Great link to the heritage gourmet. That is the new buzz word for sure and I have a community nearby that would 'eat that up!'

I am surprised to hear you suggest using one breed and then switching to another given your own dedication to a breed and elitism that I read in other threads that goes along with being dedicated to your one breed. I have been told in person by a breeder that until I pick ONE breed and show up with at a show no one will give me an real credence. I love my Orloffs, money makers or not. The more I look at the RB and their feathers the more I like them too.

I will go look for John Robinson.

Yellow House... I really would like to hear from you as well.

 

[Arielle]

BOb, are your RIR single comb or rose comb?

Yellow House got me to thinking about why the family farm has single combed birds and his farm has non-singles. THe moisture levels.

I live on the north dise of a hill and seem to get a lot of run off water. Most is diverested around the house lot, but it makes me think. THe air flows uphill from the river as the day warms up and then flows down hill as the air cools down.

If I replace woods with grass, is that more moisture or less?

In most places the chickens are eaten up all the grass and only bare dirt remains.

ANyone have suggestions on farm management, book? or web site? To have and raise chickens I think I need to go back to the beginning and see the land as the corner stone to success.

 

[Arielle]

http://www.heritagechef.com/Heritage_Recipes.html

Frank Reese told me he selects his breeders so they taste good. He has entered his chickens and turkeys in eating contests and has done well. He told me its not in the feeding that improves the taste but the breeding. That was the first for me to here.

There is a term in breeding I learned from some old men who I interviewed be for they died that they used in breeding Rhode Island Reds. They called them Laws or like Laws in Breeding.

The number one Law in breeding is using the fit of the fittest principle.

If they can not survive on their own and have to be doped up with shots and supplements you don't want them as breeders. So in selecting my breeders I looked for these traits. Much like a Hawk up in a tree who wants to get one of your birds he is going to pick the stupidest or weakest of the birds. I also did this in picking my breeders. Males had to be gal lent but not aggressive towards me or children like most commercial strains of Rhode Island Reds. The females had to get up early in the mourning and go to roost late at night. I looked for length of toe nails as females with shorter toe nails worked harder to look for bugs and such. They where also the ones who lay ed the best and I picked the ones who had better feather quality and matured faster than other females.

If you had a strain of say real good Rhode Island Reds that lay ed well feathered well and looked super good in the show room and won. You could sell your eggs and started chicks for a very good price and then help save you money to buy feed. Then people would come to your home to buy adult birds and pay a hefty price up to $75 per bird. Some guys get $100 per bird.

That with your chick and egg sales to beginners along with selling your extra eggs to locals for say $3. a dozen on the off season and your butchered males for say $15 each or more you could make money with a good breed of chickens. You could not make the profit from Product on Reds as no buddy would pay you the price for the eggs or chicks like a Standard Breed Bird.

That's the way I see it. Pick a breed that is in the demand and if the breed becomes over populated and every buddy has them then find a new breed like Mottled Javas or Light Sussex and start promoting and breeding them.

This is my view on how beginners can make a profit with poultry. In bantams like I have I dont have the feed bill like I had with my large fowl reds. Yet I get the same price for eggs and stared chicks as I did with my large fowl. They eat one fifth of what my large fowl ate and take less room. Therefor I clear more profit from raising bantams than I do large fowl reds. I can even put a pair in a small box and ship it to a beginner for say $50 and I dont have to travel to a show which takes away my profit. It all sounds good on paper but I have not made a profit in 20 years but I hope to this coming year. I hope to clear $100. bob

Many of my views I learned from reading books from poultrymen like John Robinson who was a great writer in the 1920s.

I have only been to a few shows and definitely the bantams are more than half the birds. THe bantams are very popular birds.

For meat and eggs, utility traits I thought the large Fowl was better on a number of points. If I must pay $5 for slaughter, the bigger the bird, the less cost per pound of dressed carcass. Eggs, customers want a large egg. I charge $4 a dozen and am much higher than the next door neighbor at $2.25 a dozen. I must be doing something wrong. LOL I am now NPIP tested so I am allowed to sell at farm stands. THe charge for processing a turkey is $10. BUt I can't get folks to pay the cost of feeding the creature to market weight.

THis brings up another aspect of raising heritage birds or any bird, marketing.

I still have more questions than answers. WHen I get one question answered, it leads to another question.