Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[colburg]

Quote: This is an eggcellent question. It has sparked more debate between us than anything else as far as trying to pick a breed. My wife actually suggested getting 1 meat breed and one egg breed, and I didn't tell her about how you run your farm. We have a 3 hour trip today to get to a wedding, so maybe we'll make some progress on this.

 

[Arielle]

Don Schrider has BUckeyes and brown leghorns-- took me a long time to figure out the was not random. DOh.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Precisely. They are two very different birds that offer two very different qualities. Egg-birds spatchcocked and grilled are delicious. Meat birds but out a respectable number of eggs, but that sense of bounty in one or the other comes from one or the other.

If I had to choose one or the other, I'd go Dorkings, but that' because I'm very attached to the Dorkings per se. If I were starting without prejudice, I'd probably lean more towards the Ancona.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

On a side note, and not to derail the conversation, but there's an advantage to buying from breeders with a farming/homesteading mentality--namely vigor. I was instructed once that the poulterer has two things in his first aid kit: lice powder and a hatchet. I can say that that is the notion we more or less completely live by. I don't tolerate weakness and have many more times than once culled a bird with a pretty such-and-such because of vigor. It's one of the things I always enjoyed about ordering from Dave Holderread. Frequently we'd get a shipment from him, and the stock would be bouncing from the box. Well, with that as inspiration as well as the writings of so many masters, we don't tolerate weakness--speak nothing of illness, and because of the former, we have little to none of the latter (knock on wood--pride goeth before the fall).

Well, we've had great experience with the Post Office, and I've appreciated them and still do. However, for the first time, they really messed up for us. On Monday I shipped a box of day-old chicks to Texas. They ended up in Sacramento, California!!! Only today did they are arrive in Texas: a week old, starving and dying of thirst--obviously! However, 15 out of 28 were alive! Is this wonderful? No, this is not wonderful. Is this amazing? Yeah, I'd say so. The gentleman receiving them is an old-time breeder well versed in shipping himself. He was amazed, and said repeatedly these must have been the happiest, roundest, healthiest chicks. Well, I don't know about the superlatives, but I'm certain of the comparatives. I'm sure that many disciplined, no-nonsense, farm-oriented breeders can attest to the same. One of the advantages of not having:

1. all sorts of breeds in all sorts of colors
2. birds being raised on the ground and outside as chickens in a natural environment
3. birds culled to serious health standards
4. birds not polluted from attending all sorts of crazy "swaps" with newbies who don't yet understand the intricacies of poultry health or scheisters who do and just don't care.
5. Birds that are bred toward the Standard because those standards are set to produce birds whose type demands health

the advantages are in the livability of the stock. While being more than a little miffed, I'm pretty pleased. This year, knock on wood, I've killed one cockerel for what appeared to be--maybe--weakness, which of course doesn't mean the bird was sick nor that bad things can't happen, nor are we in any shape or form unique. However, it's like the handcrafted furniture versus the Walmart or Ikea stock; there's just more going into breeder birds year in and year out.

Thanks to all of the more experienced mentors that kick the good sense into us!

 

[Arielle]

WOw I am impressed that so many survived after that many days. You have hardy stock!!

 

[catdaddyfro]

On a side note, and not to derail the conversation, but there's an advantage to buying from breeders with a farming/homesteading mentality--namely vigor. I was instructed once that the poulterer has two things in his first aid kit: lice powder and a hatchet. I can say that that is the notion we more or less completely live by. I don't tolerate weakness and have many more times than once culled a bird with a pretty such-and-such because of vigor. It's one of the things I always enjoyed about ordering from Dave Holderread. Frequently we'd get a shipment from him, and the stock would be bouncing from the box. Well, with that as inspiration as well as the writings of so many masters, we don't tolerate weakness--speak nothing of illness, and because of the former, we have little to none of the latter (knock on wood--pride goeth before the fall).

Well, we've had great experience with the Post Office, and I've appreciated them and still do. However, for the first time, they really messed up for us. On Monday I shipped a box of day-old chicks to Texas. They ended up in Sacramento, California!!! Only today did they are arrive in Texas: a week old, starving and dying of thirst--obviously! However, 15 out of 28 were alive! Is this wonderful? No, this is not wonderful. Is this amazing? Yeah, I'd say so. The gentleman receiving them is an old-time breeder well versed in shipping himself. He was amazed, and said repeatedly these must have been the happiest, roundest, healthiest chicks. Well, I don't know about the superlatives, but I'm certain of the comparatives. I'm sure that many disciplined, no-nonsense, farm-oriented breeders can attest to the same. One of the advantages of not having:

1. all sorts of breeds in all sorts of colors
2. birds being raised on the ground and outside as chickens in a natural environment
3. birds culled to serious health standards
4. birds not polluted from attending all sorts of crazy "swaps" with newbies who don't yet understand the intricacies of poultry health or scheisters who do and just don't care.
5. Birds that are bred toward the Standard because those standards are set to produce birds whose type demands health

the advantages are in the livability of the stock. While being more than a little miffed, I'm pretty pleased. This year, knock on wood, I've killed one cockerel for what appeared to be--maybe--weakness, which of course doesn't mean the bird was sick nor that bad things can't happen, nor are we in any shape or form unique. However, it's like the handcrafted furniture versus the Walmart or Ikea stock; there's just more going into breeder birds year in and year out.

Thanks to all of the more experienced mentors that kick the good sense into us!

Once again a great post and in words one can understand

On the shipped chicks its shameful of course, but too the fellow will surely be starting out with some of the strongest in that particular group.

Jeff

 

[Shellz]

Wow, lots of info here! Well, I've just made the switch from hatchery stock to 1 pure breed! I set 18 eggs on Sunday the 9th. The plan originally, was to wait until next year, but I couldn't help myself! They sell so quickly, being a rare breed. They are Belgian Malines from Bart Nagel in Ontario. I thought he was too far from me, but really not. Made a day trip out of it. Super guy & I loved the size of his birds! You could put a dinner plate on the rooster's back! I had been eyeing his birds for the last year on another forum & decided to take the plunge. The Malines will be our homestead flock, mainly for meat & hatching our own eggs. They can be clumsy broodies.

I'm really new to the breeding game here, so what I really want to know is, how do I keep this breed going & doing it justice? It was mentioned that an out-cross to a good quality barred rock could be used to create a new meat breed. Don't think I really want to go that route, but at some point, I'll need some genetic diversity to keep line healthy & pure. Out-crossing would be a last resort. I have yet to buy the SOP, so I would appreciate any & all advice! I will also inquire of Bart himself on the other forum.

 

[Arielle]

Shellz, I"m new to this, and have thought over your same questions. I see the value in outcrossing, however that is the easy route and long term maybe not the best route. Perhaps stay intouch with the breedr and find out who else has his birds and stay in touch. From my reading, if you and Person B both have stock from the same place, you can swap males in 4-6 generations. You can also go back to the original breeder.

Have you read Robert BLosls thread on Heritage birds? I find the philosphy to be pretty good, but his focus is only old heritage lines.

I have been in touch with Don Schrider, and he was able to improve the growth rates on the BUckeyes by combining a number of lines and then selecting heavily among the 3 pens. THis is now called the ALBC line.

Which ever method of breeding you follow, outside blood is important to add every few years.

Perhaps others will also offer their input.

 

[Sonia]

Bookmarking thread

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Hmmm....I'd offer some different ideas. Outcrossing is actually very hard to see through to completion. It takes major dedication, very high numbers, and ruthless on-going culling. There's actually nothing easy there.

If you keep enough breeders and manage your program, keeping strict records, wing-banding, toe-punching, maintaining multiple cocks, you don't need to bring in new blood as long as you began well. With rare breeds, if one is really intending to work with them, one needs to maintain either alone or with other equally long-term committed breeders a large enough program to be self-containing, or one will be forced to bring in other blood which will likely be a step down.

@Shellz: Being the bearer if hard tidings isn't easy, but Malines were a difficult choice for beginning. They are not in the SOP. There is no established bloodlines surrounding them in North America. You won't have a standard to breed to or mentors to support you save this fellow who has them. I totally--100%--applaud your move to settle on one breed, but before you open Pandora's box and lose another season or two,, I'd honestly--politely--but honestly recommend recycling the eggs, and getting an SOP standardized bird. On many levels, Malines are dead end. I know this falls as a disappointment, but in the long-run you're going to find yourself fairly alone with your Malines. There's so much fun community to be had otherwise.

Best,

Joseph