Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[AletaG]

THis is Josephs thread.

@ Nat--- I'm sure Yellow House will around as soon as he can-- this can be a busy time of year--Bob Blosl passed away, but we still have many knowledgeable and helpful people like Joeseph to carry on.

Phooey. What I get for posting too soon in the mornin'. I was thinking about the relatively recent posts (w/in last week or so) he's made on the other thread, very thorough, not nec Dorking specific, but awesome for someone considering heritage breeding, getting away from scattershot flocks.

 

[Pathfinders]

oh no((( I am sorry!
I hope they will let people know, but I understand it will take time.
Actually I would love to talk to YellowHouseFarm. I meant to talk to the guy who grows Dorkins. Now I remembered that Bob was mostly RIR guy.
I started from the mixed heritage flock. Some Marans, some Chanteclers, some Lavender Orpingtons(I know they are not yet considered heritage), and couple of Dorkins.
But tragedy stroke in my flock. I lost half of my flock to Mareks. Some we ate, and some are still left. We did not have a chance to try to eat Dorkins. But only one female left.
I got some RIR and Australorps. Mostly as a working birds -for meat and eggs, nothing fancy - on Craigslist. They are 10 days old.
BUT... Next spring I am going to get a good stock again from some very reputable breeder. I am thinking BC Marans and New Hampshire.
I also have a question - how do you protect birds from Mareks? DO YOU VACCINATE?
I TOOK MY FIRST BIRDS FROM THE BREEDER WHO DID NOT BELIEVE in vaccinations, but it is very hard to see the beautiful birds just perishing in your eyes. So I got vaccinated RIR.
How do you deal with Mareks? As I know it is very common here in Pacific Northwest.

I think different breeds of poultry have differing levels of susceptibility to Marek's Disease. I know when I used to breed Dutch Bantams, I had to vaccinate everything that hatched, they just never seemed to get resistant. But with my LF Buckeyes, I see very little instance of Marek's, and don't vaccinate for it at this point.

Breeding for resistance can be hard to do, especially in the beginning. And there are different strains of Marek's, which may differ by location. I do offer to vaccinate chicks for my customers (as long as they pay for the vaccine), but don't do so for my own chicks.

 

[DEEINIOWA]

I think different breeds of poultry have differing levels of susceptibility to Marek's Disease. I know when I used to breed Dutch Bantams, I had to vaccinate everything that hatched, they just never seemed to get resistant. But with my LF Buckeyes, I see very little instance of Marek's, and don't vaccinate for it at this point.

Breeding for resistance can be hard to do, especially in the beginning. And there are different strains of Marek's, which may differ by location. I do offer to vaccinate chicks for my customers (as long as they pay for the vaccine), but don't do so for my own chicks.

I have been vaccinating for Meriks for 4 years now, and LT for 6 years. These are 2 common disease for my state. I too, tried the 'breed for resistance' thing, but the mortality rates for some of these things are just too high a price to pay. Plus once the parent stock are infected they become carriers for life & shed the virus any time they are stressed....PS. I believe in vaccinations for all my children too. I would never consider the idea of letting them just develop a natural immunity to life threatening illnesses, would you??
The price of vaccines can get expensive, yes, but it is a small price to pay for the health & well-being of my chickens. And you simply passed on that cost to buyers who purchase your birds. They are getting a 'value added product' after all.

 

[Pathfinders]

Hi Dee,

Yes, I think we all have to find our tolerance level, and go with that.

That's why I am happy to vaccinate chicks for customers if they wish.

 

[cgmccary]

I think different breeds of poultry have differing levels of susceptibility to Marek's Disease. I know when I used to breed Dutch Bantams, I had to vaccinate everything that hatched, they just never seemed to get resistant. But with my LF Buckeyes, I see very little instance of Marek's, and don't vaccinate for it at this point.

Breeding for resistance can be hard to do, especially in the beginning. And there are different strains of Marek's, which may differ by location. I do offer to vaccinate chicks for my customers (as long as they pay for the vaccine), but don't do so for my own chicks.

Me too. I certainly would not hesitate vaccinating my LF Buckeyes for Marek's if I were having losses. I have not had a loss since 2010 when I lost a cockerel to the disease.

 

[Beekissed]

That brings us back to what is considered "heritage" traits. Can a line be truly considered "heritage" quality if it cannot survive without pharmaceuticals seeing as how these birds didn't have available vaccines for this or that when they were developing their original traits?

 

[Fred's Hens]

I think someone, maybe Laura, used the term "tolerance level".

Just my own view of things, but some folks have zero tolerance for anything and out comes of the array of pharmacy drugs, antibiotics, vaccines and such. Others? Perhaps some Corid, poultry powder (or homeopathic equivalents) and that's about it. Some folks only medicine is basically a sharp axe and the strongest of the strong principle.

These are domesticated birds and we husband them. To each their own.
I am personally in the very minimalistic camp when it comes to drugs and such.

 

[Beekissed]

It's definitely worth discussion when talking about "restoring" a breed. To what place is it being restored? Can we only expect to restore it to current environmental stressors and then supplement hardiness from there on in? Or do we limit our breed selections for restoring to those breeds that naturally thrived in those areas and had built up disease resistance to those pathogens found in those areas? What is reasonable, what is too hard core and what is staying true to the term "heritage"?

All things worthy of discussion when wanting to claim the title of "heritage lines", I would think. One member had suggested that one is not truly improving a line unless they are hatching out 100+ birds a year, so with that level of fecundity, one could presume that they could stand to lose a number of those birds if it were to contribute to the practice of developing a truly hardy line of birds. What good are the rest of the traits if the bird cannot stay alive without the help of pharmacy to further those lines?

Not trying to get an argument here, just introducing some questions I've often had about livestock in general and those people who really want to raise heritage stock to preserve the breeds that are dying out and seem to be willing to do it at the cost of losing the one trait that kept the breed alive and thriving in the first place past all other type of animals in its specie. I can see doing that at first to build up sheer numbers of the animals being bred to give one breathing room for refining the original traits,but if the animal/breed is no longer on the conservatory's endangered list, why not then work on the original trait of natural hardiness?

Just food for thought and for chewing on....

 

[saladin]

Have you read any of the old poultry magazines and books from 100 to 200 years ago?

First off those folks tried any and everything on their birds! There losses were no higher or lower than ours today.

I'm with Fred. My cure for most any kind of disease is to kill it. It's fast, effective and cost very little. One year I killed over 75% of my fowl when fighting Coryza. I won!!

Now as to preventives, that is a whole different ball of wax. I'll try and use most anything!

Read those old books; they all suggest preventives. Some of their thoughts would make these moderns squirm!

An example: Ground glass was fed for worms.

Arsenic was used for about everything and anything.

 

[saladin]

As to vaccines:

You must be careful! Many States will not allow you to show or bring in birds that have been vaccinated for certain things (LT was mentioned above). Birds being shown or brought into North Carolina, for example, cannot have been vaccinated for LT.