Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[finnfur]

Those are nice dressed birds.

Thank you . It means a lot coming from you.
Compliments at this point are needed LOL . But Kathy deserves the Kudos as she has done a good job getting us started.
Still a lot of work to do but the genes are there.

 

[RiddleMe]

 
How would you go from a trio or quad, to a rotational line breeding program?

Thanks, colburg

Here's how I would do it, starting with a young trio:

Year One:
Pen A - Cockerel, Pullet
Pen B - Pullet

Year Two:
Pen A - Cockerel from Pen A, Hen from Pen A
Pen B- Cock from Pen A, Hen from Pen B, Pullet(s) from Pen A to fill

Year Three:
Pen A- Cockerel from Pen A, Hen from Pen A, Pullet(s) from Pen B to fill
Pen B- Yr 2 Cock from Pen A, Original Hen from Pen B, Pullet(s) from pen A to fill
Pen C- Original Cock from Pen A, Pullets from A&B

Year 4- 
Pen A- Cockerel from C, Pullets from A 
Pen B- Cockerel from A, Pullets from B
Pen C- Cock from yr 2 pen A, Pullets from C
Pen D- Original Cock from A or Cockerel from Pen C, Pullets from A&B (C only if not using cockerel)

At that point I would relabel everyone with proper pen "clan" bands (All birds in Pen are now Clan A,B,C, or D based on where they currently are) and begin my rotation.

That branch out keeps maximum distance between birds for genetic separation, and avoids brother/sister matings.  Remember when making pairings to not double up weaknesses, complimentary breeding as much as you possibly can.  When branching out like this, use your original birds as long as you can.

I would encourage you if you're going to go to this method from a trio, it is very very important that the original male be of superb quality.  It is easier, and possibly better from a preservation standpoint to start from 2 pair. Or a trio and a Pair if you can.

Another plan that would work would be:

Year One:
Pen A- Cockerel, Pullet
Pen B- Pullet

Year Two:
Pen A- Cockerel from A, Hen from A
Pen B- Cock from A, Hen from B

Year Three:
Pen A- Original Cock from A (or Cockerel from B), Hens and Pullets from A
Pen B- Cock from A yr 2, Hen and Pullets from B
Pen C- Cockerel from A, Pullets from B
Pen D- Cockerel from B, Pullets from A

Year Four:
Relabel and begin rotation

So if you started with two pair, would you jump straight to your four pens year two and start rotations year three? And in year two would you keep two lines between the four pens to set traits further or rotate? Ie
Year One:
Pen A - Cockerel, Pullet
Pen B - Cockerel, Pullet

Year Two:
Pen A - Cockerel from Pen A, Hen from Pen A
Pen B- Cockerel from Pen B, Hen from Pen B
Pen C - Cock from Pen A, Pullet from Pen A
Pen B- Cock from Pen B, Pullet from Pen B

-OR-

Year Two:
Pen A- Cockerel from Pen A, Hen from Pen B
Pen B- Cock from Pen B, Pullet from Pen A
Pen C- Cockerel from Pen B, Hen from Pen A
Pen D- Cock from Pen A, Pullet from Pen B

Year 3- relabel and start rotation

 

[neopolitancrazy]

Ok, all you SOP devotees, please tell me if I missed something important in the 2 years I have been reading and drooling over the pictures on this thread.

I purchased a trio of my most-wanted breed (Silver Grey Dorkings) and found the hens identical in all ways but size/weight. One hen is meeting the SOP defined weight, but the smaller hen is one-third lighter. So, the big hen is in the breeding pen with the cock, and I am collecting eggs, writing their collection date on the shell, and placing them in an automatic turner in a cool room.

When the oldest egg is 10 days old, all eggs are going into the incubator, which is holding temp and humidity well. After 9-10 days in the incubator, eggs will be candled and clears removed. After 18 days in the incubator, eggs will be candled again, and those with viable chicks will go into a hatcher, which is also holding temp and humidity well. 24 hours after hatching, all chicks will be removed, puny chicks and chicks not bearing 5 toes per foot will be culled. Surviving chicks to be toe punched to denote hatch date. Goal: 30-50 chicks in the brooder.

Fast forward to 12 week old chicks, all puny chicks have been culled when noted, as were skeletal deformities. Pullets separated from cockerels when easily sexed (~ 6 weeks of age.) At 12 weeks, smallest 25% by weight culled/spatchcocked. At 16 weeks of age, smallest 25% by weight butchered as well. At 20 weeks, weigh again, and choose breeders from largest 25% by weight, as well as by other breed characteristics.

At this point next year, do I breed the best cockerel to his mother? the best pullet to her father? or both of the above plus a cockerel x pullet pen? or see how they turn out and decide next autumn?

I am grateful for your expert advice, and am very excited about my first foray into breeding by the SOP.
Angela

 

[ronott1]

Ok, all you SOP devotees, please tell me if I missed something important in the 2 years I have been reading and drooling over the pictures on this thread.

I purchased a trio of my most-wanted breed (Silver Grey Dorkings) and found the hens identical in all ways but size/weight. One hen is meeting the SOP defined weight, but the smaller hen is one-third lighter. So, the big hen is in the breeding pen with the cock, and I am collecting eggs, writing their collection date on the shell, and placing them in an automatic turner in a cool room.

When the oldest egg is 10 days old, all eggs are going into the incubator, which is holding temp and humidity well. After 9-10 days in the incubator, eggs will be candled and clears removed. After 18 days in the incubator, eggs will be candled again, and those with viable chicks will go into a hatcher, which is also holding temp and humidity well. 24 hours after hatching, all chicks will be removed, puny chicks and chicks not bearing 5 toes per foot will be culled. Surviving chicks to be toe punched to denote hatch date. Goal: 30-50 chicks in the brooder.

Fast forward to 12 week old chicks, all puny chicks have been culled when noted, as were skeletal deformities. Pullets separated from cockerels when easily sexed (~ 6 weeks of age.) At 12 weeks, smallest 25% by weight culled/spatchcocked. At 16 weeks of age, smallest 25% by weight butchered as well. At 20 weeks, weigh again, and choose breeders from largest 25% by weight, as well as by other breed characteristics.

At this point next year, do I breed the best cockerel to his mother? the best pullet to her father? or both of the above plus a cockerel x pullet pen? or see how they turn out and decide next autumn?

I am grateful for your expert advice, and am very excited about my first foray into breeding by the SOP.
Angela

I learned on the Dorking thread that SGs are slow developing and will change a bunch up to the second year. It might be a mistake culling for size at hatch. SG Dorkings have a very diminished gene pool.

Are you using the Clan breeding scheme?

 

[007medic]

A dressed Buckeye



Both Buckeye and La Fleche (the La Fleche are the smaller and whiter skinned #2&6 on the first shelf and #2,3,4 &6 on the second shelf)

 

[finnfur]

A dressed Buckeye



Both Buckeye and La Fleche (the La Fleche are the smaller and whiter skinned #2&6 on the first shelf and #2,3,4 &6 on the second shelf)

Nice !
Are those gallon size zipper bags or vacuum ?

 

[BGMatt]

So if you started with two pair, would you jump straight to your four pens year two and start rotations year three? And in year two would you keep two lines between the four pens to set traits further or rotate? Ie
Year One:
Pen A - Cockerel, Pullet
Pen B - Cockerel, Pullet

Year Two:
Pen A - Cockerel from Pen A, Hen from Pen A
Pen B- Cockerel from Pen B, Hen from Pen B
Pen C - Cock from Pen A, Pullet from Pen A
Pen B- Cock from Pen B, Pullet from Pen B

-OR-

Year Two:
Pen A- Cockerel from Pen A, Hen from Pen B
Pen B- Cock from Pen B, Pullet from Pen A
Pen C- Cockerel from Pen B, Hen from Pen A
Pen D- Cock from Pen A, Pullet from Pen B

Year 3- relabel and start rotation

Either would work, I would do the first one, making sure either that year four that I've either replaced the males or females that would end up in pens C and D. Because otherwise you'd end up with a brother sister pairing which I try to avoid.

You could also do:

Year two
Pen A- Cock from B, pullets from A
Pen B- cockerel from A, Pullets from B
Pen C- Cockerel from B, Hen from A
Pen D- Cock from A, Hen from B

Which would give you a full four year rotation before you had to worry about running into a possible brother sister mating and honestly you probably should have replaced some breeders by then I would think.

 

[capayvalleychick]

Ok, all you SOP devotees, please tell me if I missed something important in the 2 years I have been reading and drooling over the pictures on this thread.

I purchased a trio of my most-wanted breed (Silver Grey Dorkings) and found the hens identical in all ways but size/weight. One hen is meeting the SOP defined weight, but the smaller hen is one-third lighter. So, the big hen is in the breeding pen with the cock, and I am collecting eggs, writing their collection date on the shell, and placing them in an automatic turner in a cool room.

So, you are not using the smaller hen at all? Your entire breeding is going to be out of a pair?

I would use both hens, just so the offspring are not so tightly related.
I don't know why I bother saying this, but be careful about culling just for size. My initially largest cockerels never end up being the largest by 7 months - a year. My largest cockerel this year was the smallest chick in his batch.

 

[neopolitancrazy]

I learned on the Dorking thread that SGs are slow developing and will change a bunch up to the second year. It might be a mistake culling for size at hatch. SG Dorkings have a very diminished gene pool.

Are you using the Clan breeding scheme?

Yes, they are slow developing, which is why this years breeders are adults, (birds from Urch,) and the juveniles (chicks from McMurray,) are just hanging out and growing. I am NOT culling for size at hatch, just bad feet and lack of vigor. (Sorry, I thought of puny as weak/sickly rather than small.)

I am hoping to build up to a clan breeding scheme, but don't yet have enough decent birds to constitute a clan . I have birds from 2 of the best widely available strains (Urch and McMurray.) I am planning to breed each strain separately for 2-3 seasons each to see what I can make of them, then re-assess.

 

[Shellz]

A dressed Buckeye Both Buckeye and La Fleche (the La Fleche are the smaller and whiter skinned #2&6 on the first shelf and #2,3,4 &6 on the second shelf)

Nice! I decided recently that the Buckeye is a breed worth saving & we need more breeders here in Canada. Hoping to get some hatching eggs from a breeder in 2014. I've done a lot of work to promote my first chosen breed, but as said here before, there is no SOP for it yet. I'm excited about working with the Buckeyes in the future.