Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[Arielle]

Quote: Hybrid vigor is the effect of the mixing of the genes-- usually a faster growth rate and hardier, so perhaps that is the part: vigor = hardiness?? THen what do you call the effect when the animals grow faster and bigger than the parent stock? In school we called it hybrid vigor. Is there another name??

 

[ronott1]

Hybrid vigor is the effect of the mixing of the genes-- usually a faster growth rate and hardier, so perhaps that is the part: vigor = hardiness?? THen what do you call the effect when the animals grow faster and bigger than the parent stock? In school we called it hybrid vigor. Is there another name??

It also includes the ability of a chick to hatch as well as fertility of the Cock Birds.

A better Gene Pool too. Some crosses make super egg layers and other make super meat producers.

Some of the Hybrid Cornish crosses come from a four way cross.

 

[finnfur]

Are these not a hybrid? Two breeds crosses and then selected.

Hybrid vigor works. But it depends on parent stock that is homozygous and compatable. To make a great hybrid requries great parent stock. Working with only one bird on a farm is far easier than multiple breeds.

Yes - Kathy crossed Heritage Barred Plymouth Rock Cock over NewHampshire Hen - The same way the original breeder , George Ellis did it in 1950s
The Story and maybe some Pics are here if interested.
http://thedelclub.webstarts.com/history_of_the_breed.html
Problems existed with current hatchery stock and this was Kathys answer to that problem.
She did a outstanding job and the ones you see at the linked thread are The F4s
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/777172/delawares-from-kathyinmo/570

 

[Arielle]

Quote: THe dedication of the breeder to producing superior stock is very valuable. KathyInmo's line has the hybrid vigor that I suspect the old lines have slowly been loosing due to insufficient numbers of breeders/producers.

Perhaps that is why when DOn Schrider tackled the buckeye project he collected birds from a number of lines, as I remember 4 lines, maybe it was more. BUt the purpose being to mix the genes up again and slowly continue mixing and selecting bthe better birds over several generaltions. I don't know the number of generations that he worked on the project. Does anyone know? THen stock was made available to other breeders. A faster growth rate and a larger bird by 1# at . . . ., boy getting hard to r ecall, either 24 weeks or 20 weeks. ANd that was for a male.

 

[gjensen]

Hybrid vigor is the effect of the mixing of the genes-- usually a faster growth rate and hardier, so perhaps that is the part: vigor = hardiness?? THen what do you call the effect when the animals grow faster and bigger than the parent stock? In school we called it hybrid vigor. Is there another name??

I know and you know what vigor is etc.

What I was saying is the quality of those carcasses is not due to vigor. The carcass conformation is due to the genetics of the parent stock. Vigor does not magically give birds a superior carcass.

I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying, and I am not making myself clear.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: SOrry-- I didn't pick up your point-- think I got it. Yes iproved fleshing requires selection. I've bred together two hatchery breeds and the mutts are useless as meat birds. Most of my non-hatchery stock is useless as a meat bird too! BUt put together two meat birds and amazing things can happen. THis is the mechanism behind the commercial meat industry. BUT as that is not the main focus of this thread-- how can one utilize the concepts of hybrid vigor to improve thier quality heritage breed of chicken?

I think this is where BOb talked about having a buddy to swap stock with. Inbreeding does take a toll, and a shot of "new" blood is helpful.

( I think I'm learning, lol, hard to move from commercial agriculture to old heritage breeds. )

 

[gjensen]

Arielle, I am not a good communicator.

You can invigorate a flock with the same breed or bringing in a bird from a related line that has long been removed. The more inbred the two lines are, and the less the two sides in the mating is related, the more vigor you will see. In theory anyways.

For utility, high vigor matters. Particularly if both sides is well bred.

Kathy was very resourceful in acquiring her parent stock, and made good choices. The first generation was especially vigorous. They were great birds. They glowed with vigor.

 

[Arielle]

Arielle, I am not a good communicator.

You can invigorate a flock with the same breed or bringing in a bird from a related line that has long been removed. The more inbred the two lines are, and the less the two sides in the mating is related, the more vigor you will see. In theory anyways.

For utility, high vigor matters. Particularly if both sides is well bred.

Kathy was very resourceful in acquiring her parent stock, and made good choices. The first generation was especially vigorous. They were great birds. They glowed with vigor.

I'm not a good communicator either . . . but I like what you post. . . .

 

[Lacy Blues]

Arielle, I am not a good communicator.

BUNK!

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Definitely kind and thoughtful . . .