Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[Arielle]

My primary interest is the buckeye ( THank you ROn for suggesting Hostmans' rocks however single combs have been nipped by frost bite here this last winter.) and this too is recognized as a winter layer but perhaps not as good as the rocks. ( OR not nearly as good.)

How do I build a flock of good fall and winter layers?? Without lights.

 

[catdaddyfro]

That is what I said Fred. They are not all the same.

I am no stranger to the breed, and know enough about this breed and some others to know that making generalizations is worthless. Absolutely worthless.

I here it all of the time, and I just shake my head.

Even the word good in a description is not telling. Good for one is different for another.

Personally, I like numbers and experience, but too many exaggerate to really rely on anything.

LOL I agree here LOL some folks think cheese is good, me...I think it sucks ie.... LOL

out of all the H type breeds-varieties I have here which includes Rocks (3 varieties), Reds, and New Hampshires(2 different strains) the NH outlay the others by far anually and one of those strains out does the other by just a tad. and I don't have any numbers to post but just experience(eyewitness) on them.

Jeff

 

[gjensen]

LOL I agree here LOL some folks think cheese is good, me...I think it sucks ie.... LOL

out of all the H type breeds-varieties I have here which includes Rocks (3 varieties), Reds, and New Hampshires(2 different strains) the NH outlay the others by far anually and one of those strains out does the other by just a tad. and I don't have any numbers to post but just experience(eyewitness) on them.

Jeff

Of course. Can you say that one more time? Just kidding.

 

[bluebirdnanny]

Excellent thread!


I'm a sharecropper on a 60 acre farm west of me.  It's been a great learning experience while hubby is still tied to the city.  This year I'll be growing out crops of cornish x, which does not fit in with my value system, however as a side project and as a way to try to convince the farm owners that a dual purpose bird would be better for the farm, I also have my flock of Delawares on the farm.  I got the Delawares from another farmer who has been selecting for carcass size as well as egg laying ability, so at least some of the initial work of improving them has been done.  There's a problem though.  Of the different breeds of chickens I have running around for egg laying, which currently run with the Delawares, it's always the Delawares that get picked up by aerial predators, of which we have many.  The Delawares are monster foragers, ranging far and wide, and require little care.  They will come running at feeding time, but don't spend nearly as much time at the feeder as the other poultry.  I truly like this bird, they fit my lifestyle perfectly, and I would love to be able to further improve the stock I have... except for the aerial predator problem.


I'm wondering if it's their color that makes them more noticeable from the air.  After the first couple of deaths, I penned all the poultry in the orchard, but that didn't help as a coopers hawk found them just as delicious as the larger hawks outside the orchard, even through the coopers hawk couldn't lift them over the fence.


I'm thinking that if it's a color thing, then I may want to change over to the New Hampshire Red.  However, as has been stated throughout this thread, finding heritage stock is not an easy thing, and I'd rather not have to start working with a breed from scratch, through I will if that's what is required.


So what are your thoughts on color and predation in a free-ranging system?

If you do true free ranging as I do you have to expect once the hawks find and get to eat the chicken they will come back again and again. Color really has little to do with it. Perhaps if they freeze a white fowl in winter would take a second round to see. BUT that said hawks have keen eyesight. When mine free range I am usually outside working. Nothing short of either keeping them securely penned WITH a strong hardware cloth top (forget chicken wire) will keep the hawks at bay. But I find there isn't much hardiness to a fowl that doesn't know to avoid predators during the day IF you have enough places for them to do so. Sorry if that discourages you. But if you free range you expect to loose some if unattended and even possible while they are standing at your feet if the predator is hungry enough. If they are the best breeders then a covered pasture/tractor will serve part time. But they don't develop a healthy fear of ariel hunters if they always have protection overhead.

I tend to stay out with mine and "train' them by giving my own distress call... they either duck under a good thick arching bush or run to under something on their way to the coop. Nothing is foolproof to ward them off. And a mega secure coop at night is a must.

 

[ChickieMomma2Be]

What is considered "true" free range. I apologize, if this question has already been answered. My plan has been to dedicate an acre to our flock (It will probably take a bit of time to get it all fenced in as DH wants to go section by section I guess), what would that be considered?

 

[gjensen]

If you do true free ranging as I do you have to expect once the hawks find and get to eat the chicken they will come back again and again. Color really has little to do with it. Perhaps if they freeze a white fowl in winter would take a second round to see. BUT that said hawks have keen eyesight. When mine free range I am usually outside working. Nothing short of either keeping them securely penned WITH a strong hardware cloth top (forget chicken wire) will keep the hawks at bay. But I find there isn't much hardiness to a fowl that doesn't know to avoid predators during the day IF you have enough places for them to do so. Sorry if that discourages you. But if you free range you expect to loose some if unattended and even possible while they are standing at your feet if the predator is hungry enough. If they are the best breeders then a covered pasture/tractor will serve part time. But they don't develop a healthy fear of ariel hunters if they always have protection overhead.

I tend to stay out with mine and "train' them by giving my own distress call... they either duck under a good thick arching bush or run to under something on their way to the coop. Nothing is foolproof to ward them off. And a mega secure coop at night is a must.

I have never seen a chicken that was not instinctively wary of things overhead. No training necessary, regardless of how they were raised.

 

[gjensen]

What is considered "true" free range. I apologize, if this question has already been answered. My plan has been to dedicate an acre to our flock (It will probably take a bit of time to get it all fenced in as DH wants to go section by section I guess), what would that be considered?

There is no "official" definition that makes any sense. If you let them out to forage naturally, daily, you are exceeding or meeting any definition of free range.

If you can and are willing, cross fence your "pasture" and rotate them.

 

[Beekissed]

Quote:

Of the different breeds of chickens I have running around for egg laying, which currently run with the Delawares, it's always the Delawares that get picked up by aerial predators, of which we have many. The Delawares are monster foragers, ranging far and wide, and require little care. They will come running at feeding time, but don't spend nearly as much time at the feeder as the other poultry. I truly like this bird, they fit my lifestyle perfectly, and I would love to be able to further improve the stock I have... except for the aerial predator problem.

I'm wondering if it's their color that makes them more noticeable from the air. After the first couple of deaths, I penned all the poultry in the orchard, but that didn't help as a coopers hawk found them just as delicious as the larger hawks outside the orchard, even through the coopers hawk couldn't lift them over the fence.

I'm thinking that if it's a color thing, then I may want to change over to the New Hampshire Red. However, as has been stated throughout this thread, finding heritage stock is not an easy thing, and I'd rather not have to start working with a breed from scratch, through I will if that's what is required.

So what are your thoughts on color and predation in a free-ranging system?

If you do true free ranging as I do you have to expect once the hawks find and get to eat the chicken they will come back again and again. Color really has little to do with it. Perhaps if they freeze a white fowl in winter would take a second round to see. BUT that said hawks have keen eyesight. When mine free range I am usually outside working. Nothing short of either keeping them securely penned WITH a strong hardware cloth top (forget chicken wire) will keep the hawks at bay. But I find there isn't much hardiness to a fowl that doesn't know to avoid predators during the day IF you have enough places for them to do so. Sorry if that discourages you. But if you free range you expect to loose some if unattended and even possible while they are standing at your feet if the predator is hungry enough. If they are the best breeders then a covered pasture/tractor will serve part time. But they don't develop a healthy fear of ariel hunters if they always have protection overhead.

I tend to stay out with mine and "train' them by giving my own distress call... they either duck under a good thick arching bush or run to under something on their way to the coop. Nothing is foolproof to ward them off. And a mega secure coop at night is a must.

Amen! A voice of reason! If I've heard it once I've heard it a thousand times that people don't want to have white birds because they intend to free range and think the hawks will eat those first. It has nothing to do with color, as was stated in this post so well.

I've had big white birds in nearly every flock I've ever owned and the predators are not partial to color...they are partial to loners, slow moving, too fat birds, birds that are so busy eating/foraging that they ignore the warning calls, birds used to being picked up, and birds that just do not have a built in wariness.

The best way to insure your free range birds are less susceptible to predation is a good dog or two in your range area, places to duck and cover, choosing breeds that have a high survival instinct, good flock roosters that have an instinct for wariness and can sound a general alarm, and starting out your birds as soon as 2 wks of age on free range so they can learn from the older birds.

What is considered "true" free range. I apologize, if this question has already been answered. My plan has been to dedicate an acre to our flock (It will probably take a bit of time to get it all fenced in as DH wants to go section by section I guess), what would that be considered?

It's all relative to flock size and stocking rates per acre. You can have an acre of land that has too many birds on it and then it just becomes a very large run/paddock. Or you can have a medium sized flock on an acre and, if the grasses are diverse and lush and the bug/worm life good, they can obtain 50% or more of their nutrition on the pasture/range in the good months..I consider that free range.

I don't consider chickens let loose of an evening in someone's backyard to peck mildly around the coop as true free range..that's just chickens let out to forage a little before roost time. They won't range out much further than immediately around the coop and the food is quickly depleted there, but they don't have time to range out any farther. Free range is a constant and steady hunting for food and an all day occupation... a good free range flock can improve your pasture/grass by the nature of their ranging and thereby provide even more food for their hunting.

 

[Beekissed]

I have never seen a chicken that was not instinctively wary of things overhead. No training necessary, regardless of how they were raised.

I have...those birds that are used to being picked up by someone stooping down from overhead. Those birds squat and freeze when a shadow comes over them when they should be running for cover. Any bird that can easily be caught and picked up by a human in the day time can be easily picked off by an aerial pred.

 

[gjensen]

I have...those birds that are used to being picked up by someone stooping down from overhead. Those birds squat and freeze when a shadow comes over them when they should be running for cover. Any bird that can easily be caught and picked up by a human in the day time can be easily picked off by an aerial pred.

Mine do not stoop in submission for hawks or vultures flying overhead. I have never seen that. I have to wonder if we are not seeing the bird freeze, which is a normal instinctive reaction.