Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[bnjrob]

My thought is that you can only raise as many breeds as you have the infrastructure to maintain properly. For most that's one or, perhaps, two. However, a pen of a hens with a cock is not housing breeders. One needs multiple space for cocks and females. Then there are growing-out facilities, which although they can be simple, must be adequate.

I'm not really into discussing "breeds". A breed is what the SOP says it is, I think it is much for valuable to discuss strain because that's what birds are. They are strains. Names are labels. Types are breeds, Strains are what is in you backyard.

If I were to have to choose between a bird that wasn't a top producer but matched the SOP or a bird that was a great producer but did not match the SOP, I'd go with the bird that matched the SOP. As BGMatt pointed out, it is easier to get production into a bird that matches the SOP than it is to get SOP onto a random bird.

I think that the right bird for you in the bird that you want to look at, read about, study, breed, hatch, cull, weight, etc... That's the right bird for you. The internet and lots of books for that matter are full of folks saying things about breeds that they have no business saying. This false information brings people to fall for breeds they shouldn't and reject breeds they shouldn't.

What is rare? Almost every single thing in the Standard is rare in SOP form. The rarest chickens are well-bred chickens. I'd relinquish the rare label. I'd choose a breed or choose a color. If you choose a breed, raise the variety or, if the case be, one of the two or--in the rarest cases--three varieties in that breed that are actually of quality. They are carrying the breed; they are that breed. Color really is skin deep, and I am a firm believer that we need to concentrate on specific varieties in breeds if want anything to survive in high quality at all. There are some breeds with multiple varieties, it might seem like it's a tragedy if one dies out, but it's really not. Lots of color varieties were just someone's experiment that caught on long enough to get into the SOP; however, every breed has specific colors a specific color that is its anchor. That's the on, or those are the few, that people should back, because those are the varieties that will usher that breed into the future. Whenever I see color projects, I feel sorry for the breed, because it's core is being neglected for some fad. Take Cuckoo Dorking for example, much effort was exerted into getting them into the Standard, but to what avail. The Dorking was a dying breed, and here people were neglecting the breed in order to make a variety. Who cares about Cuckoo Dorkings? The only Cuckoo variety of anything that has any hopes of being impactful is the Dominique. Cuckoo in anything else is never more than a fad. While folks were "working on" the Cuckoo Dorking the Dorking itself was slipping away.

Just because a color exists in the SOP doesn't mean it is, or even ever was, any good. There are Blacks and White in many varieties--they are lovely. People often micro-focus their vision on an aspect of a pattern, but the beauty of a flock is in the symmetry and the balance of the type of the birds of the flock. If you're new to chickens, read that sentence again until it makes sense. When you look out at good birds and they make you go, "Wow" it is in their symmetry and balance of type. Color on scrappy birds looks ragamuffin. If it is a specific color that calls you, find the breed or perhaps breeds that own that color and then go there. For example (and this is just my crazy, unfounded, and silly opinion):

If you want Blue and a Wyandotte, you can get Blue Wyandottes. Then you can kick and scream for 30 years until you've got them good and strong (maybe if you're lucky), but to what avail? Blue belongs to Andalusians, and Wyandottes are White, SL, and Columbian. I'm of the opinion that those efforts should go in a direction hat will matter. If I wanted Blue Wyandottes, I'd sit quietly and decide what was more important, Blue or Wyandotte. Then I'd make up my mind and do one or the other. I believe that this would lead to efforts that would actually promote and preserve a breed as opposed to simple self-isolate with a fad that won't go anywhere.

So:

1. If you're raising less than 100 a year, have one breed.

2. If you choose a breed--adopt the primary variety, or ONE of the primary varieties (a hint only two breeds I can think of have 4; some have three; most have two; the luckiest have one)

3. If you choose a color--find the breed or, perhaps, breeds that own that color and go with ONE of them (unless you can raise 200 chickens a year and then go with two of the (maybe))

4. Get the bird that best match the SOP you can find, and it their production isn't where you want it to be, hatch a 100 and start selecting.

5. Don't give up, and if you need a distraction, get a bantam.

 

[pigsflyacres]

I think there is a lot of wisdom in what YHF has to say. When I tried my hand at Red Dorkings in the past I had good birds to start. But no mentor and these forums weren't as busy as now. I just didn't understand what I needed to do. And I was easily distracted by a pretty pattern/color. I did end up with a pair of cuckoo dorkings. I wondered what I had got. They did not have even decent type. They just didn't even look like Dorkings except for that 5th toe. I rather rapidly moved them on. If you dip into many of the threads on BYC, most people who are trying to breed are focused on a color and are not hatching in the numbers they need to to get anywhere. So we see a chicken craze, but no idea how to sustain it. Good breeds aren't getting attention. Then there is the hysteria over an imported bird. If its imported, its all of a sudden better than what is here. I'm finding my experiences with the creme legbar really eye opening. vigor is a problem and its not going to be improved because people are focusing on the puny little sports and the creme color. Its not a project I'm putting any real effort into, but I can't help but look at the chicks and tag ruthlessly as culls. The ones that hatched first and were biggest are still biggest. Those little stragglers are still puny and I don't care if they have the better color. I'm only hanging onto them because I know nothing of the breed. And I have very few of them. They just don't take up space I need at the moment. I can amuse myself. At a point in a few weeks the stragglers will be history.

I like a BBR pattern. There is something clean to it. And to top it off, I find the history of the Dorking interesting. Add to it that they do well in my microclimate and what more could I want? Oh yeah, good meat, eggs and broodies.

Pick a breed that you are attracted to or pick a color that really catches your eye. A well bred white chicken is stunning en masse. So is a black one. Go with what causes your heart to go pitter patter then settle in to making it your strain, adapted to your micro climate and needs. Get the best stock to start that you can find. Do not try and do it from shipped hatching eggs. Get started stock or day olds.

Jennifer

 

[southernmomma]

Bob did recommend single colored varieties. He also recommended breeds that were already in good shape, and were not especially uncommon. There is a lot of wisdom in starting there.

I'm left a little speechless--I hadn't expected such a wonderful, informed, sensible response from such a number of people. Thank you all. There are many things I'd love to point out as exceptional advice but this quote has stuck in my head. It's so darn sensible. I fully admit being wooed with the thought of some of these heritage birds, the passion of dedicated professional breeders is palpable and contagious; even folks that consider themselves hobby breeders but have years and years of experience- the dedication and ferocity with which they champion their breeds is breathtaking! It forces me to acknowledge my boundaries and admit I need to be flexible with my wants, needs, wishes. I think beauty in symmetry is something for me to aspire to and for me that means following the sage advice of those I've realized, in short order, know what they're talking about...........everyone has an opinion but only a few really know what they're talking about

. I think I can take their words as gospel.

So.Chickeny chickens with both feet planted on steady ground for type. I maintain my desire for standard bred fowl and slow food. I maintain my preference for broodiness but acknowledge this is often line related. I like red, mahogany, brown, orange chickens.....they seem earthy but am flexible.

Plymouth Rock? German New Hampshire? Heritage New Hampshire? Wyandotte? Orpington? Buckeye? One variety of one breed. Single color.

I have my work cut out for me, lol.......I'm so thankful for all of you, the generous sharing of knowledge.

Cheers,
M

 

[Yellow House Farm]

"~I maintain my desire for standard bred fowl and slow food. I maintain my preference for broodiness but acknowledge this is often line related. I like red, mahogany, brown, orange chickens.....they seem earthy but am flexible. Plymouth Rock? German New Hampshire? Heritage New Hampshire? Wyandotte? Orpington? Buckeye? One variety of one breed. Single color."

Broodiness is something that may or may not exist as a strong trait in your birds when you first get them. If it is a priority, it is something for which you must breed--likeall traits for which one must breed.

For possible variety choices:

Red Dorking
Speckled Sussex
RC and SC RIR
NH
Parridge Rocks
Buckeye

All red or mahogany breeds are parti-colored. Choose one and go for it.

 

[gjensen]

And in the mean time, there is nothing wrong with picking up a few birds known to be reliably broody and putting them to work. It has been a time proven practice to have a small group of birds specifically for this purpose, while the "production" birds were the main focus.

I know of a few people that keep a small group of game hens just as setting hens.

 

[chamoisee]

I think there are people that believe that they are breeding to the SOP in that the feathers look right, the tail angle looks right, but maybe they aren't checking weights on their birds, they aren't checking the keel or the pelvis to see what the underlying structure is, etc. And since feathers can hide all kinds of things, a bird can have an appropriate silhouette and overall look that seems true to type, but not have the foundation and utility there.

I have had some people telling me that they didn't want to get birds from a breeder that is close to them but they wouldn't tell me why. Come to find out, even though the breeder says that they breed to the SOP and has some show wins, this person has 15 different chicken breeds, along with other types of birds. And this person apparently keeps several hundred birds at one time. That's an awful lot of birds and different breeds to have to be familiar with each SOP to try and breed. I seriously doubt this person has the time to put their hands on each of their birds or monitor egg laying, weights, etc. when I know that they have a job outside of chickens.

And people with show wins - well if you don't have much competition at a show, you can still win first place. Doesn't mean that you have an exquisite specimen.

There is just so much more to chickens but so many people can't get past the pretty feathers and then some don't want to because it's a lot of work to have more than just some chicken eye candy.

Thank you. I agree and understand completely, because I see the SAME thing in regsitered dairy goats, which I have been breeding for about 20 years. People breed and sell on the basis of silly things like "moonspots", pretty colors, blue eyes, etc. They sell buck kids for breeding not based on conformation but because some fool will buy it and besides, it is cute, has spots, and they don't want it to go for meat. And...then there are the breeders who will cherry pick bloodlines from half the herds in the country so that their herd has no consistency. Yes, only one breed, but so many different types....you cannot offer someone else good lines if yours are not consistent. I do not buy from herds that have just a few does from several breeds- it takes *work* to improve a breed and that can't be easily done with 4 breeds at the same time, the focus simply is not there. So.....all this is applicable to chickens too, looks like.

I have the Orloffs coming....will get these established for this year, put in an order for White Chanteclers for next year. I know the white seems so plain, but to me they are such beautiful birds. I will need to bring in new lines of these two breeds so they don't get inbred, and that in itself will probably be a lot of work.

I still LOVE the Cochins though!

 

[pigsflyacres]

Don't get hung up on thinking you need to bring in new blood every few years. Read up on rotational breeding or clan breeding. Its a method that requires some infrastructure, but allows you to go a number of years without bringing in new blood and even then the idea is to have someone with the same strain going at a distance (2, 3, 4 hours away) that you can get stock from.

I see rotational or clan breeding to be very elegant and simple. The hard part is having a 'partner' to swap birds with. You can make the system work for you.

 

[chamoisee]

Ok right, but....I shouldn't breed soley from Sandhill stock, right?

 

[southernmomma]

And in the mean time, there is nothing wrong with picking up a few birds known to be reliably broody and putting them to work. It has been a time proven practice to have a small group of birds specifically for this purpose, while the "production" birds were the main focus.

I know of a few people that keep a small group of game hens just as setting hens.

Most definitely an option and something I come back to repeatedly.

"~I maintain my desire for standard bred fowl and slow food. I maintain my preference for broodiness but acknowledge this is often line related. I like red, mahogany, brown, orange chickens.....they seem earthy but am flexible. Plymouth Rock? German New Hampshire? Heritage New Hampshire? Wyandotte? Orpington? Buckeye? One variety of one breed. Single color."

Broodiness is something that may or may not exist as a strong trait in your birds when you first get them. If it is a priority, it is something for which you must breed--likeall traits for which one must breed.

For possible variety choices:

Red Dorking
Speckled Sussex
RC and SC RIR
NH
Parridge Rocks
Buckeye

All red or mahogany breeds are parti-colored. Choose one and go for it.

Thank you for your time and encouragement!

M

 

[Fentress]

I know others may have already stated this, but I will repeat because it is so important. Get to know the breeder and make sure they are selecting for the production values that you want in your chickens. And visit the property, if possible to see the stock for your self and talk the the breeder who could become a future mentor.