Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[DesertChic]

Hi

,
Ok. I will weigh in here. I am a very small breeder. I only have room for 30 adult birds. Right now I have 10. Last season a challenge cropped up with cushions on my Light Sussex. So I did two things. 1. I obtained a very high quality straincross hen and bred her to one of my best cocks. Out of 10 chicks, 3 for 4 of them were without cushions. 2. Inbred the strain with the cushions, choosing a son of the bird who I thought threw the problem and a dam who is 1/2 sister to the hen I thought was throwing the problem. Out of 20 chick 3 or 4 did not have cushions. I kept all the chicks without cushions and everyone else got sold into anonymity. Next season we will breed the straincross cock back to his mom and the straincross pullets back to their dad. We will also inbreed the pure strain -no-cushion pullets to the 1/2 brother of their sire. Once again we will be looking to see where cushions crop up and weed them out. I think we have a handle on this. Because I think any birds involved in throwing the cushions were only carriers, not manifesting cushions themselves. With a small hobby like this it is all about the planning and projecting.
I see ya'll were discussing close feathering. Some great discussions and pointers, congrats! The best explanation I ever read was written by Judge William White Whitehead back at the beginning of last century ( 1921 ) . He was one of the three Whitehead brothers, all noted in the poultry world. He went on to become President of the Poultry Club in Britain. This booklet was the first in a series written by the Poultry Club to feature a single breed and explain it in simple terms for the budding poultry enthusiasts in the U.K. returning from WWI and being encouraged by the Gov. to pursue poultry breeding. http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924003137332;view=1up;seq=1
Best Regards,
Karen
Look whose copy was donated to Cornell. This digitized copy belonged to none other than Olney Kent Brown , Sr. Cool he had it in his library.

Thank you for making this contribution. As I will be working with a smaller flock, I think your example helps solidify in my mind what others here have been explaining in regards to line-breeding / in-breeding. Slowly but surely it's all starting to come together in my mind.

 

[Maggiesdad]

Thanks to all for kickin' the can here for the past several days... I've missed threads like this since Bob passed.

Good stuff indeed.

 

[3riverschick]

Re: Desertchic's comment above. I think it's all about the needs of the flock. The trick with small flocks is to be able to cull wisely. It is the keystone. If we can cull wisely , it means we have taken time to learn several things.

1.The history and origins of our chosen breed. ( This knowledge teaches us to understand the nuances of our breed. Without understanding those nuances, it is almost impossible to cull for correct breed type ( "Solving The Mysteries of Breed Type", a dog book applicable to poultry) . What makes a proper "insert variety" a proper "insert variety" ?
The level of greatness results from the level of perfection in the scared union between form and function. It is the level of perfection in the union that determines the level of greatness. Not the level of either form or function. Yes, greatness in form and function are essential. Yet, one can have a creature "great in its parts when still fails to achieve greatness in the whole. That is because perfection in the union is not there. Have you ever seen a dog which was great dissected when by eye piece by piece. Yet it still failed to impress. Why? The perfection of union was not there.
What makes a "great" example of your chosen variety? One needs to understand the form and function of one's chosen variety to be able to answer that. What is the function of your chosen variety? What nuances in your variety make that function excellent? That is why we study history and origins.
2. The needs of the flock and how they inherit from one another ( again more study, esp. of the heritage of your chosen strain. This is why it benefits to buy from a breeder with a vintage strain or who has very recently purchased from a vintage strain, or strain with good records. That breeder knows his/her strain and can help with a genetic history. ).
3. Understanding of breeding systems, how they are used and when. Breeding systems are cooking directions. When they are used correctly, you get a good result. Good cooks understand how to bake, broil, sear, poach, blanch, fry, etc. This is knowledge they should already have in their heads before the need arises in a particular recipe. We can learn this by studying how expert breeders have handled our chosen breed,talking to expert breeders, and reading.
4. Learning genetic "shorthand" and that it means. Of great value when one is seeking precise info from experienced breeders and folks knowledgeable about genetics. It also helps when reading genetic info. It is valuable to understand the genetic shorthand and how it applies to your variety when studying the history and origins of your variety.
Here's an example. Light Sussex are eWh. Light Brahma are eb. Tho the two breeds mostly look alike in color, the differences in color breeding are great. Light Sussex do not demand balancing the color in the underfluff to obtain proper top color, while the Light Brahma do. Here's an example from the old lit. I was researching Light Sussex color breeding and the old lit talked about balancing the underfluff to get proper top color. We don't do that now. Why did they back then? I checked the three breeds behind the Light Sussex and found out 2 of them were eb based and one was eWh based. The I went back to the old lit and checked again. The color balancing advice disappeared in the late 20's and 30's from Light Sussex lit. What was going on? I went back and reviewed the old color balancing avice. Suddenly I dawned on me. the Light Sussex breeders disliked the brassiness in the white parts which came from eb based and eWh/eb based birds. They were working to move the whole variety into the eWh base. Even tho they didn't know it because the genes hadn't been named yet. They were describing the results by denoting color differences as they progressed. Finally, when the color balancing advice disappeared in the lit, that was when the variety had so moved to the eWh allele, that it wasn't worthy to mention color balancing any more. It became an obsolete topic.
Best Regards,
Karen

 

[PineTopFarm]

Just posting to follow this discussion.

 

[3riverschick]

What a great article! I have been trying to explain this for months on BYC
and gotten some strange looks. Note esp. The next to the last sentence:
"For instance, maintaining good gizzard functions and promoting a “healthy”
microbiota in the first week of life may lead to life-long productivity.". It;'s a big reason I have been
touting the science of feeding grit to poultry. Interdict the developmental timeline as this author suggests
and give the chicks everythg they need to help make a better foundation upon which they can mature.
The importance of managing gut health in poultry
eChook News
27th November 2014
http://www.poultryhub.org/2014/11/importance-managing-gut-health-poultry/

 

[Beekissed]

I agree! This also reinforces what I've been trying to do with giving chicks fresh sod in their brooder, brooding them on the flock's litter, using deep well-cultured litter(keeping all that microflora from the bowels where it can thrive), not using medicated chick feeds, and feeding fermented feeds from day one, then getting them out on range by 2 wks. I also believe that, not only does this improve the immune system of the bird for life but it also improves the health of the chick coming out of the egg at hatch.

Improved bowel flora goes beyond the chicken too and makes for a better environment in their coop that creates a circle of health...good and healthy excrement adds to the richness of the cultures in composting deep litter, which then returns this to the young chick being reared on the litter. Early establishment of antibodies to the flock's existing germs makes for a stronger immune system all around. Early ingestion of their healthy gut flora aids in all of that.

 

[Fentress]

I agree! This also reinforces what I've been trying to do with giving chicks fresh sod in their brooder, brooding them on the flock's litter, using deep well-cultured litter(keeping all that microflora from the bowels where it can thrive), not using medicated chick feeds, and feeding fermented feeds from day one, then getting them out on range by 2 wks. I also believe that, not only does this improve the immune system of the bird for life but it also improves the health of the chick coming out of the egg at hatch.

Improved bowel flora goes beyond the chicken too and makes for a better environment in their coop that creates a circle of health...good and healthy excrement adds to the richness of the cultures in composting deep litter, which then returns this to the young chick being reared on the litter. Early establishment of antibodies to the flock's existing germs makes for a stronger immune system all around. Early ingestion of their healthy gut flora aids in all of that.

Well said. hatching with broodies that are part of the flock is probably the most fool proof method. When I have brooded chicks, I always gave them clumps of pasture/cover crop for them to play with and to promote health. So many people cut the plant material and give it to them, but make sure they get the root ball.

 

[DesertChic]

Well said. hatching with broodies that are part of the flock is probably the most fool proof method. When I have brooded chicks, I always gave them clumps of pasture/cover crop for them to play with and to promote health. So many people cut the plant material and give it to them, but make sure they get the root ball.

Love this discussion! I've studied nutrition for the past 15 years, primarily from a paleontological perspective. The food industry in this country has completely brain-washed the public about what should be construed as "food" and nutrition, both in the human realm and the animal realm. Only now are the studies beginning to catch up to what paleontologists have known for a very long time..that our "normal" dietary habits are killing us and making us sick. One of the best examples of the problem resolves around corn. People think that organic corn is okay, is healthy for humans and animals alike, but it's really not. In fact, it's not even really a food. Most people don't realize that the maize from which corn "evolved" doesn't even resemble what's out there for consumption right now, both in appearance, in digestibility, and nutrient or toxicity content. Human bodies not only can't digest corn (have you ever noticed it comes out the same way it goes in?), but actually LOSE nutrients in increase overall body inflammation as a result of consuming it. Corn is toxic to the human body, whether organic or not. It's ALL been genetically modified to the point of not resembling its ancestral origins. (I"m seeing a bit of a parallel here to the disappearing strains of heritage chickens vs. hatchery birds here.) When Native American populations from Mexico introduced corn to Native Americans in what is now the U.S., such as the Anasazi, the impact was HUGE. Initially it allowed the Anasazi to fill their bellies quite well during a period of famine, and for a few years they were okay...but then the effects of the corn began to take their toll and health declined rapidly.

Now information on the detrimental effects of corn has been well documented and available for over a century, but you have to dig for it in the right places. And let's face it...it tastes good, it's relatively affordable, and it's a convenient way to fill our bellies as well as the bellies of our agricultural animals, but they didn't evolve to eat corn either. The same ill effects that occur in humans also occur in animals, but often those animals are slaughtered for consumption before the effects of toxicity can show their true colors, and yet those effects can be passed on to us when we consume the meat. Our commercialized agricultural industry claims "corn is good!" and so we believe it, and we eat, both directly and through our animals, and we don't question it because it's been the norm for so long. And it's more affordable and more convenient that growing crops for our animals to supply them with whole foods.

I'm really sorry if I sound preachy here. I don't mean to. This is just something I'm so very passionate about. I honestly believe that depriving our society of the knowledge of just how beneficial whole, natural foods are in place of the "normal" foods touted by marketing firms has led to a massive downward spiral in our society. That's why I like the BYC, where I encounter so many people who have chosen a different path the succumbing to the fast-food mentality that's so pervasive. Please don't take anything I've said as a personal attack on anyone's individual beliefs or personal choices. I simply mean to share what I've learned so that others may make informed decisions for themselves.

 

[3riverschick]

Our commercialized agricultural industry claims "corn is good!" and so we believe it, and we eat, both directly and through our animals, and we don't question it because it's been the norm for so long. And it's more affordable and more convenient that growing crops for our animals to supply them with whole foods.
=========
Had a collie pup years ago ( not related to any of my breeding stock I ever had) who was allergic to corn. Very allergic. I was just starting in dogs and couldn't figure out how to heal the weeping sore on his back. I tried everything for over a year. Including eliminating corn by using a barley and turkey kibble. Nothing worked and eventually he went to another home and they found him allergic to corn. I was astonished because I had tried this barley and turkey kibble to no effect. I didn't try lamb and rice because the barley and turkey hadn't worked. Why duplicate failure? L and R eventually was successful with that dog. What happened? How did I miss it? The corn allergy? I did some further digging and eventually found out they fed the turkeys corn. And there was turkey digest in the kibble. The digest contained just enough corn to make this collie pup react. I was astonished and now check not only the ingredients but what is behind them as well.
Best,
Karen
Now I will only feed my collies Fromm feed. To my knowledge the only company I can find without a recall.
Small family company. No corn, wheat, soy.

 

[LindaB220]

I would say that the biggest problem with Basques is that they are a seriously underdeveloped bird. Of course if they're your cat's meow, there's very little to say there; everyone is certainly entitled to enjoy they're bird of choice, but the wouldn't be even neat my list of recommended breeds, which is sort of a strange segue to a phone conversation I just had.


Someone just asked me about some breeding ideas they're interested in trying, and the question came up as to which breeds I would want to work with for farming purposes. I came up with an initial list of imaginable possibilities:

Rocks, Wyandottes, Reds, NHs, Australorps, Dorkings, Sussex, Orpingtons, Faverolles, Langshans, Minorcas, Andalusians, Anconas and Leghorns.

It was just sort of a general list; so the question became what would I actually narrow it down to, which came to

Rocks, Reds, NHs, Dorkings, Sussex, Faverolles, Minorcas, Anconas, and Leghorns.

I can honestly say that I wouldn't go anywhere else.

Sorry for the delayed answer. That's a great set of choices. I plan to go for White Rocks, NH, and Australorps. Along with the Basques of course. I have a Blosl rooster white rock I'm picking up locally Sat. And one Blosl pullet and 2XW pullets. This is my main breed. Others will be for Sex links and layers.