Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[pinusresinosa]

I think the problem is that most folks are not willing to breed for anything but appearance because they aren't comfortable killing and eating birds that they have raised. I'm coming across more people that want to show their birds, so are interested in breeding to an appearance standard, but they aren't willing to eat one of their own birds at all. They wig out if you even talk about killing and eating a bird. It's part of today's citified society that is disconnected from the food supply.

I don't like the idea of the meat mutts from the hatchery because too many of them require you to go back to the source for more birds, rather than being able to have a self-sustaining flock for the long term. And the extra fast growing hybrids - well those are good for getting a lot of meat in a short amount of time, but again you're stuck going back to the source to get them because you have to kill them all at 8 weeks old before they start dying of organ failure.

There are birds out there that will do fine for a self-sustaining egg and meat flock, you just have to look at what your expectations are and then look for the birds.

We love our Javas and they do well for us. Even with just a handful of hens, we had more than enough eggs for us to eat and were able to share some. We aren't at the point where we can completely rely on them for all our chicken meat needs, but we're working toward that goal as well. Since they are dual-purpose, they don't have as much meat on them as a meat-only bird, and they grow a lot slower than a modern meat-hybrid, but we think that we will eventually find the right balance of how many we need to hatch and grow out each year in order to supply our meat needs. And our birds are hardy. They do well confined or free range. We did have to change our expectations a little bit to get accustomed to what a true, oldfashioned farm bird could offer us, compared to what we were accustomed to buying at the store.

You can find what you're looking for, you may have to alter your expectations or how far you're willing to go to get the birds you want, but they are out there.

That's what feels "off" about having to get hatchery birds each year, so you get what we feel. I think my husband is fine with buying from hatcheries because he's liking and expecting the high put-put and fast turn around of these hatchery hybrids, it impresses him to no end, and I get that. I think it's neat too. You get a tasty and big carcass in lightning speed from cornish crosses and we're on our second year with our ISA browns and we love their big eggs and vitality (can't stay that about these hatchery leghorns... they've been really hit and miss). But it still feels like we're having to depend on a grocery of sorts for food, and I don't want that! And indeed about expectations. We're coming to that realization that having to reorder egg layers every two years would be annoying. Interestingly, the ISA browns are still laying well though, even into two years. They're a decent bird. But I bred some this spring and they don't come true, even close to type. I've raised tomatoes from hybrids and usually even though they're hybrids they usually come somewhat close to type. These chickens didn't.

I'll keep looking out and researching, and thinking more on making my own bird. Thank you for the warm welcome!

 

[hellbender]

I think the problem is that most folks are not willing to breed for anything but appearance because they aren't comfortable killing and eating birds that they have raised. I'm coming across more people that want to show their birds, so are interested in breeding to an appearance standard, but they aren't willing to eat one of their own birds at all. They wig out if you even talk about killing and eating a bird. It's part of today's citified society that is disconnected from the food supply.

I don't like the idea of the meat mutts from the hatchery because too many of them require you to go back to the source for more birds, rather than being able to have a self-sustaining flock for the long term. And the extra fast growing hybrids - well those are good for getting a lot of meat in a short amount of time, but again you're stuck going back to the source to get them because you have to kill them all at 8 weeks old before they start dying of organ failure.

There are birds out there that will do fine for a self-sustaining egg and meat flock, you just have to look at what your expectations are and then look for the birds.

We love our Javas and they do well for us. Even with just a handful of hens, we had more than enough eggs for us to eat and were able to share some. We aren't at the point where we can completely rely on them for all our chicken meat needs, but we're working toward that goal as well. Since they are dual-purpose, they don't have as much meat on them as a meat-only bird, and they grow a lot slower than a modern meat-hybrid, but we think that we will eventually find the right balance of how many we need to hatch and grow out each year in order to supply our meat needs. And our birds are hardy. They do well confined or free range. We did have to change our expectations a little bit to get accustomed to what a true, oldfashioned farm bird could offer us, compared to what we were accustomed to buying at the store.

You can find what you're looking for, you may have to alter your expectations or how far you're willing to go to get the birds you want, but they are out there.

As you know, we are using a few birds to 'create' what we consider to be the ultimate meat chicken but any one of the breeds we're using can stand alone and be used as a premium meat bird. Most of these F1 birds only have to please my family for taste and texture but hopefully the folks who buy birds from my kids will have a meal they won't soon forget. So many folks haven't even heard of a Capon...much less have had the pleasure of tasting it.

RON

 

[bnjrob]

That's what feels "off" about having to get hatchery birds each year, so you get what we feel. I think my husband is fine with buying from hatcheries because he's liking and expecting the high put-put and fast turn around of these hatchery hybrids, it impresses him to no end, and I get that. I think it's neat too. You get a tasty and big carcass in lightning speed from cornish crosses and we're on our second year with our ISA browns and we love their big eggs and vitality (can't stay that about these hatchery leghorns... they've been really hit and miss). But it still feels like we're having to depend on a grocery of sorts for food, and I don't want that! And indeed about expectations. We're coming to that realization that having to reorder egg layers every two years would be annoying. Interestingly, the ISA browns are still laying well though, even into two years. They're a decent bird. But I bred some this spring and they don't come true, even close to type. I've raised tomatoes from hybrids and usually even though they're hybrids they usually come somewhat close to type. These chickens didn't.

I'll keep looking out and researching, and thinking more on making my own bird. Thank you for the warm welcome!

Look for folks through the Livestock Conservancy and the Sustainable Poultry Network. There may be someone near enough to you that has a listing with those organizations that will have farm birds like you're looking for. Also, Duane Urch in Minnesota has a large number of different breeds - he has been keeping some of the old breeds alive through the last century when hardly anyone else had the old fashioned birds. You can find his info on standardbreedpoultry.com - Urch/Turnland Poultry. Finding birds this time of year from a true breeder can be difficult, but you can get on the waiting list for the spring hatches. As an FYI - he also has Black and Mottled Javas, and I can attest to them being hardy birds in both cold weather of MN and even Maine, as well as doing good down here in the hot South.

 

[bnjrob]

As you know, we are using a few birds to 'create' what we consider to be the ultimate meat chicken but any one of the breeds we're using can stand alone and be used as a premium meat bird. Most of these F1 birds only have to please my family for taste and texture but hopefully the folks who buy birds from my kids will have a meal they won't soon forget. So many folks haven't even heard of a Capon...much less have had the pleasure of tasting it.

RON

LOL - people are so disconnected from their food. I've been amazed here lately at how many people locally have been asking about our chickens and turkeys and expressing interest in tasting a farm raised bird. Gave away some eggs the other day and the yolks weren't as dark orange as normal because it's been so dry that all the grass is dead but the people are still raving about the taste and look of the eggs.

 

[hellbender]

LOL - people are so disconnected from their food. I've been amazed here lately at how many people locally have been asking about our chickens and turkeys and expressing interest in tasting a farm raised bird. Gave away some eggs the other day and the yolks weren't as dark orange as normal because it's been so dry that all the grass is dead but the people are still raving about the taste and look of the eggs.

Yep...that potent 'country taste' in your eggs should shine through, despite suffering a sustained dry spell. Eggs from rack-hens likely have the taste of chicken do-do...if they have any taste at all!

Edited by Staff

 

[ronott1]

Yep...that potent 'country taste' in your eggs should shine through, despite suffering a sustained dry spell. Eggs from rack-hens likely have the taste of chicken do-do...if they have any taste at all!

Edited by Staff

You have reminded me of when we moved from the Orchard to the City. We had chickens and very good eggs. I was shocked at how odd store eggs tasted. The best description was some kind of odd freezer burnt taste to them.

I got used to it but since I have had chickens again do taste the oddness again when I eat a store egg--usually when I am traveling.

The egg at the hospital in San Francisco was pretty good though--It looked like a trader joes fertile egg.

 

[hellbender]

You have reminded me of when we moved from the Orchard to the City. We had chickens and very good eggs. I was shocked at how odd store eggs tasted. The best description was some kind of odd freezer burnt taste to them.

I got used to it but since I have had chickens again do taste the oddness again when I eat a store egg--usually when I am traveling.

The egg at the hospital in San Francisco was pretty good though--It looked like a trader joes fertile egg.

It's been so long since I've eaten a 'store egg', I just don't remember it. I had eggs in the Army but mostly I remember powdered yellow stuff that was reconstituted with water. That could be eaten with a generous layer of gravy, grits and just about anything else poured over it.

My daughter tells me that regular old white eggs cost over three bucks now at just about all the stores in town... One or two brands cost substantially more than that. I'd rather eat BALUT

and I'm no fan of that stuff!!!!!!

 

[Beekissed]

That's what feels "off" about having to get hatchery birds each year, so you get what we feel. I think my husband is fine with buying from hatcheries because he's liking and expecting the high put-put and fast turn around of these hatchery hybrids, it impresses him to no end, and I get that. I think it's neat too. You get a tasty and big carcass in lightning speed from cornish crosses and we're on our second year with our ISA browns and we love their big eggs and vitality (can't stay that about these hatchery leghorns... they've been really hit and miss). But it still feels like we're having to depend on a grocery of sorts for food, and I don't want that! And indeed about expectations. We're coming to that realization that having to reorder egg layers every two years would be annoying. Interestingly, the ISA browns are still laying well though, even into two years. They're a decent bird. But I bred some this spring and they don't come true, even close to type. I've raised tomatoes from hybrids and usually even though they're hybrids they usually come somewhat close to type. These chickens didn't.

I'll keep looking out and researching, and thinking more on making my own bird. Thank you for the warm welcome!

You may not need to make your own bird if one that fits the bill already exists...like the Plymouth White Rock. Excellent density of meat fibers to yield a heavier bird, hardy, excellent layers, great foragers, mothering and brooding instincts but not overly so, have contributed genetics to the WR cross broilers so commonly used for meat. The difference between the WRs and other breeds that are called dual purpose are clear from a very young age...the youngest WR chicks already have developed breasts compared to other breeds of the same age. They don't eat any more than other breeds to achieve this extra muscling/meat as they have a slow metabolism....in fact, they are~pound for pound~the most feed thrifty of any breed I've ever raised.

Here's a few pics of young chicks....this first pic shows a few pure WR chicks and some WR/BA cross chicks. Note the large breasts on these little ones....that's distinctively a WR trait even in the hatchery WRs.



Here's one a little older....



...compared to some hatchery RIR and BJGs of approx. the same age...note the difference in the depth and development of the breasts, the height and the width of the body. No comparison, really.



The great meat and egg bird that everyone wants to create already exists, IMO....one need to look no further than the PWR, where a mature hen's carcass can almost match the carcass of another DP breed's rooster....this pic shows the full carcass of a fully mature, 2-3 yr old BO/RIR rooster, next to a 5 yr old WR hen's carcass cut in half....note that this is just half of a WR hen lying next to a full carcass of a DP rooster. Her breast filet is every bit as long as his but even deeper and fuller.

 

[HeritageGoose13]

You may not need to make your own bird if one that fits the bill already exists...like the Plymouth White Rock. Excellent density of meat fibers to yield a heavier bird, hardy, excellent layers, great foragers, mothering and brooding instincts but not overly so, have contributed genetics to the WR cross broilers so commonly used for meat. The difference between the WRs and other breeds that are called dual purpose are clear from a very young age...the youngest WR chicks already have developed breasts compared to other breeds of the same age. They don't eat any more than other breeds to achieve this extra muscling/meat as they have a slow metabolism....in fact, they are~pound for pound~the most feed thrifty of any breed I've ever raised.

Here's a few pics of young chicks....this first pic shows a few pure WR chicks and some WR/BA cross chicks. Note the large breasts on these little ones....that's distinctively a WR trait even in the hatchery WRs.



Here's one a little older....



...compared to some hatchery RIR and BJGs of approx. the same age...note the difference in the depth and development of the breasts, the height and the width of the body. No comparison, really.



The great meat and egg bird that everyone wants to create already exists, IMO....one need to look no further than the PWR, where a mature hen's carcass can almost match the carcass of another DP breed's rooster....this pic shows the full carcass of a fully mature, 2-3 yr old BO/RIR rooster, next to a 5 yr old WR hen's carcass cut in half....note that this is just half of a WR hen lying next to a full carcass of a DP rooster. Her breast filet is every bit as long as his but even deeper and fuller.

Do you find white rocks more productive than barred rocks and other color varieties, or do you just prefer white feathers?

 

[hellbender]

You didn't ask me but I do. I have various breeds now for different 'jobs' and one job of the White Rock is to lay eggs...another is to cross (back again) into my Chanteclers for additional meat, then to create capons without the addition of Dark Cornish. These will be for me and my family.

EDIT...The White Rock (as well as most of our breeds) would do well as a pure breed for food and eggs without crossing...I have always liked to play around with crosses and caponizarion.