Fat Hen

[Honeysucklefeathers]

My BR's lay nice, big tan eggs

They are big girls but not overweight. We don't feed lots of treats but feed free choice layer feed and greens from the garden. Mine are not hatchery girls but were raised by my friend in the local Amish community. I think hatchery chicks get fatter and are more prone to problems. Just my opinion

 

[RickMiller]

Thank you everyone for the advice.

There is deffinitely a problem going on. She was a little more lethargic this afternoon so we gave her a thorough checking out. The more we read and looked at her it seemed like it may have been an egg that wouldn't pass. We gently probed (never thought I would have to do that, thank goodness for surgical gloves) felt her abdomen and also sat her in a basin of warm water. We didn't feel anything that felt like an egg or any blockage. I also gave the run and coop a much closer look and I did find a rather fresh, very broken egg. If it was an egg perhaps it passed or came out broken?

If that's not it, I would think perhaps it's fatty liver. ClareScifi, thanks for the pictures. I will take one of Florida tomorrow and post it but she is bigger than your girls. It has to be an underlying health issue, not just fat. We are careful about how much scratch we give and as I said, they all have access to the same feed and the others are a normal weight (although the BR's are bigger than I expected).

I will post those pictures as soon as I take them and will keep eveyone posted. If she isn't better tomorrow, I don't know the next move - perhaps the vet?

While we are on the subject, what do you folks think about that? While I do feel a major responsibility with their care and I would never let one of our girls suffer, I have a little problem taking them to a vet (my wife does not share this feeling). I think that if we were not vegetarians we would probably just pick now to cull and eat her. While this is not an option, I think I have still kept this perspective. I don't know, do you folks take sick chickens to the vet or just dispatch them yourselves if you have tried everything and they appear to be suffering or incurable?

While she does lay around a lot, her eyes are still bright, her comb looks good, she is eating and drinking, and she is still quite alert and curious, she just appears to be too big to move easily. When she does walk around she kind of looks like she is limping a little on both legs (like she is just heavy). At sunset tonight she was sitting on the perch in the coop with the rest of the chickens.

Thanks again, all.

 

[Uniontown Poultry]

To vet or not to vet? Here's my 2 cents. I am not a vegetarian anymore, but my girls are strictly for eggs, pets and exhibition (poultry shows, outreach/education and demonstrations). The eggs & exhibition makes them "working chickens" in my eyes and as such, I believe they've earned the right to good medical care. In earlier days when I could not afford it, this meant buying antibiotics & other meds and treating them for whatever I thought they had, based on emailing Dr. Brown @ 1st State Vet, looking it up in Damerow's Chicken Health Handbook, checking the BYC & the classroom @ the Coop bulletin boards. I just did the best I could for them. Now however, I can afford to take them to the vet, and I usually do.

Part of that decision is based on the fact that there are so many things that can go wrong with a chicken. Mankind's been breeding them and inbreeding them for thousands of years, and there are so many diseases and ailments out there that they can get (in my poorer days I even bought some poultry science texts on medical problems of fowl & was surprised that the number of problems and illnesses far exceeds the long list with which most of are are already quite familiar (coryza, coccidosis, pneumonia, synovitis, etc.). I like knowing what the problem is, and when my diagnostic skills aren't up to the job, I like having someone else who can tell me, especially if it's something preventable, or something that my other chickens can get if not contained. And my own diagnostic skills are not that hot: the eye infection I thought might be coryza? Turned out to be e.coli. The CRD in the young hen my sister gave me? Bacterial pneumonia. The suspected case of canker? Cancer. Those first two could have resulted in me dosing the whole flock when treatment on only one bird was needed, and the last one could have had me buying medicine that would not have saved my chicken anyway. Taking my chickens to the vet has taught me that I am far from omniscient when it comes to what's ailing poultry, and sometimes there is a simple answer to the problem, but it's only simple to the person who knows what to look for. I also learned a lot about poultry health from my vet. If your chicken aren't just livestock to you, and it won't cripple you financially, I recommend the vet when a health problem stumps you.

That being said, if you choose a vet, try and get a good one. I live within driving distance of three vets who treat chickens (which amazes me). Two are country vets, and the other is an avian vet. I have taken birds to all three vets before I settled on one: I take my chickens to the avian vet because she actually examines them. Example: I brought my 7-year old favorite hen in for a suspicious lump & the bird got a full exam including tracheal and vent swabs, a test for worms, heart listened to, lungs & air sacs listened to, feet examined, skin examined, and the lump stuck with a needle and a cytology screen done. Cost me $70 (lump was fatty tumor & required no treatment). My vet knows avian skeletal and muscular structure way better than I do and she's experienced at finding problems in birdy bodies. She answers all my stupid questions, even about issues with birds I didn't take to see her. Sometimes it's more expensive if there are Rx, or two visits needed (seems to be about $70 a visit for her - which put her in the middle of the three vets). There is nothing wrong with using a country vet, and I applaud any vet who is willing to try to treat poultry b/c so many just don't. But if you can snag an avian vet who is willing to see your chickens as patients, using him/her for the occasional boo-boo or illness, or to have on hand when the yard-chicken-who-becomes-a-pet needs a doctor is a good idea.

And I always, always recommend learning as much as you can and doing as much as you can yourself. I don't run every chicken to the vet straightaway - I've sewn torn skin back together, set and repaired malformed/injured feet & joints, sprinkled sulfur and blood-stop on open wounds, and on and on. But when I get stumped, and I'm scratching my head, it's often time to let the vet put her experienced hands on my bird and help us find the answer. And for full disclosure: I was a vegetarian for 2009-2010, and while I'll eat my sister's birds, I'd no sooner cull and eat one of mine than I would my cat (who is not even as friendly as my most aloof chicken). These guys are my pets, even Freeloader, who doesn't even work (she's too unfriendly for events and as a mutt, can't be shown). Besides, if you did decide to cull & eat her, if you're girl's more than 8-12 months old, she'll be pretty durn chewy. Anyway, can't wait to see the pic. Hope my blahblahblah is helpful!

 

[ChickensAreSweet]

Quote:
Rule out egg yolk peritonitis too:
http://www.avianweb.com/eggyolkperitonitis.html
(I have no experience with it- just thought I'd mention it in case you hadn't heard of it.)

 

[RickMiller]

Well, after thinking the worst for two days we went to the vet. She is just egg bound. Did an ultrasound and no fluid or or anything else going on, just a misshappen egg rather high up. I gave them all plenty of greens tonight along with a little cottage cheese and a little extra calcium in their food as per the vet's recomendation. She said she thought it would pass. I also stopped by the feed store and picked up a packet of vitamins to add to their water. This whole thing may wear her out a little and I don't want her resitance low to any other secondary issues that may arise. Also, I mentioned to one of the vets I spoke to on the phone that perhaps it was egg yolk peritonitis (thanks for that link, ChickensAreSweet, it was very helpful) but she said they are usually much sicker with that than what I described.

Uniontown Poultry, you are very lucky to have three vets who see chickens. I live in the suburbs of NJ and we don't have that many choices. I called all around and finally took her to our regular vet who has two avian/exotics specialists on staff. It seems all of our farm vets around here just do horses and cows (mostly horses). Our regular vet though, for lack of a better term, is one of the new breed of fancy animal hospitals. Blood work and an ultra sound ended up costing $375. That's a lot of eggs, which I was quick to explain to Florida. I am glad though we did an ultrsound and I am interested in seeing the results of the bloodwork. It will be interesting to make sure they are getting and metabolizing the proper nutrition. I fully appreciate the level of service they provide, I mean I have been in people hospitals that are not this nice, but for a chicken with a stuck egg I was hoping to find a vet who did things on a slightly lesser scale. I didn't really need the free espresso or huge TV in the waiting area - I'm more a tap water and radio kind of guy (although they do have good cofffee).

Thanks again to everyone for all the good advice. I never got around to taking the pictures I promised to post but that's on the list for tomorrow. I was in desperate need of a vacation so I took this week off. So far it has not been too relaxing.

 

[ClareScifi]

Interesting to hear about your vet experience. I'm almost glad I wasn't home the day Merry Easter got down, because I wouldn't have known whether to take her to the vet or not. My bird vet is a long way off, and my old, unconditioned car would have been unbearably hot for her in 98 F weather. If she was too fat, I think the stress of all that could have easily triggered a heart attack in her. That may be what she died of, anyway, and I hope it was a fast death and she didn't have to suffer.

I will be eager to see a picture of your chicken. I just wish I knew what my girl died of. I have read that with fatty liver disease they often die while trying to lay an egg, and there is a rupture. But she wasn't in an egg laying location when she died. I sure hope that wasn't it. That seems to me like a particularly awful way for a hen to have to go.

My best guess is heat stroke, and that is terrible enough. Since her sister survived, I suspect Merry Easter had an underlying condition. She is the girl who once did get an egg stuck in her, but it dropped out early the following morning and I found it when I opened their coop. That was several weeks before she died, maybe a couple of months? The egg had a perfect white circle on it. I will post a photo of it. The Ph.d. chicken expert said it was probably a one-time thing, a fluke, and that if it never happened again she was probably fine, but that if it did happen again it could be a sign of a health problem. It never happened again, but she died, anyway.

 

[ClareScifi]

Here is the photo of my Merry Easter's egg that got stuck. I am going to save the egg forever. It is still edible, but I can't bear to eat it. How I miss my girl, still, and always will:

Clare

 

[ChickensAreSweet]

Quote:
Wow! I am so glad that it sounds like you will be able to resolve this with a happy ending!!!

I have always found that after a vacation I feel like I need a vacation.

 

[RickMiller]

Almost there. I checked her again this morning and I can now feel the egg. It's about 2 inches from daylight. I lubed her up again and gave her another warm soak and rub. My fingers are a little too big to get one around it and even with skinny fingers, how does one go about that?

She still seems ok although a little tired from this straining. She's not walking that much at all but is still eating and drinking. Also eyes are still clear and a nice red comb and wattles. I think we are in the home stretch.

Question though - if this happened once, is there a tendancy for it to happen again? I don't know if either of us are up for going through this again.

 

[ClareScifi]

I will send you the info the chicken expert sent me, if I can find it.