Faverolles Thread

[poularde]

Congrats! Can not wait to see how they turn out.

 

[pasofinofarm]

We just hatched our first batch of salmon faverolles from eggs we ordered and almost half of them have four toes on one or both feet. I know this is a defect for a show bird, but at what rate would you expect this to happen? Six of thirteen birds seems high, but I am also pretty new to the breed.

Thanks!

Are these chicks mine???? Someone just contacted me to say they got a hatch with a high number of four toed chicks... I am freaking... The SF chicken jail backs up to an Lavender Ameraucana pen... If I had an Am roo get over the chicks would be similar I think... But I still would not have expected such high numbers as when I have crossed on purpose for green eggs layers for friends the percentage has been much lower due to the dominance of the five toe gene. Also I would have expected to see some black/grey chicks????

I was out of state for almost two weeks with my mothers death at the beginning of March and I guess it could have happened while I was gone but a stray roo would have to be living in that pen to give those kinds of numbers I think.... Ugh!

She says of 13 hatched 4 have a four and a five toed foot and two have two four toed feet... I am just freaking out!

If anyone got eggs from me recently and had this happen I would really like to hear from you so I can make it right....

 

[sandiklaws]

" if more breeders bred this way the breed would have much better vigor".

Hmmm. Ya know, i own probably the most closed flock breeding wise in the entire country. Consequently yes, my bloodlines are tight but I don't get where some of you are coming from with this "lack of vigor". I have no problems with weak chicks or birds and never have. I think the message here is as follows. Chickens are like any thing else. You get what you pay for. Buy cheap chicks from hatchery junk? You get the fact that hatcheries don't pay any attention to how they breed their off color, bad toed, bad typed, miserable combed DQable junk! What else comes from unmanaged breeding with no concern except how much $$$$$ they can make off of their cheap eggs and chicks. Simply put
My Pet Chicken is so stupid they list Mahogony as being an accepted variety in the APA Standard. NOT!

Some of you just haven't been doing this long enough to make some of the claims about the breed that you do. Get a whole bunch of time in then make qualified statements.....

Peter

That's because you happen to cull correctly Peter, lots of other people don't because they see the chicks they produce as pets. You also live in Florida not New England, kind of a BIG difference in weather there don't ya think?. I was not referring to your birds in any way in my previous post.


All of the hatcheries have breeding managers who cull based on production as the primary concern, and some of the hatcheries have outside breeders producing their rare breeds, this means the hatchery is just acting as an agent or broker, and has nothing to do with the actual breeding process. Call and actually talk to the folks at the hatcheries and you will be surprised how many of them do this. Strombirds for instance, offers “SQ” chicks through an outside breeder. This breeder is producing chicks for customers looking for something a bit better then BQ, I have bought directly from him for my turkeys and although I have not seen his Favs, I know his Turkeys are wonderful. He is also a respected poultry judge. In talking to him during my purchase of my breeder Slate tom, we talked briefly about favs and hatcheries in general. He mentioned that most of the birds produced in the mid west hatcheries got their start with birds from the Patterson line, a line that can be traced directly back to Dick Boulanger.


We have also seen some pictures of very nice quality birds, grown out from hatchery stock, people have posted here. Compared to what they once were, from talking to MANY people who have these birds, and from my own experiences with many different breeds, Favs are not as hardy IMHO as other heritage breeds that were once considered true dual purpose. In the past (early 90's) I had raised and shown many different breeds, in northern New Hampshire at various fairs and poultry shows... never saw a single Fav at any of them. They are not so rare that they should have not been represented, it was because they did not do well for most people regardless of where they obtained them. I got Fav fever back in the 90's and searched high and low for them all through northern New England where I lived, I was constantly finding people that had gotten out of the breed because it was not hardy enough for them. Some had tried eggs shipped to them from breeders, some had tried hatchery birds (they were new to hatcheries then, ever given any thought as to where the hatcheries got THEIR start), and some had lucked into them at auctions (as I did when I got my first bird) regardless of where they came from, the general feeling was that they were delicate birds.


My beef with fancy poultry (and dog) breeders is often people are not breeding/culling their birds in a manner that encourages stronger animals. Good breeding is not just about how an animal looks, it is about improving all aspects of the breed. Traits like alertness, feed consumption rates, hardiness, good mothering skills, aggression, good foraging skills, intelligence, fertility, coordination, and countless others are also changed along with the superficial appearance when we make our choices as breeders... and as breeders, if we do not keep track of which pairings affect which traits, valuable things can be forever lost. I believe in breeding for the whole bird, and if that means selecting a rooster for breeding because he had the gumption to run off a fox, rather then how he looks (something I did do 2 years ago) then my flock will be better for it. This is not to say I won't be selecting for type as well, far from it, it is just that type is only a portion, albeit a large one, of the big picture I use as my guide in making my selections.

In the end it does not matter so much as to where your birds come from, as long as you select the best stock you can from as large a sample you can manage, and breed to improve it. It is easy to forget sometimes, but all purebred Faverolles are related... regardless of where they come from, assuming that they are indeed pure. Naturally you would not want to work with stock that has tons of faults, or that seems to be of mixed ancestry, but breeds are saved all the time with very limited gene pools, and poultry is a species that is easy to make progress in if you are wise in your selections.

 

[sandiklaws]

Congrats! Can not wait to see how they turn out.

Thanks! I am so looking forward to watching them grow up.

 

[poularde]

Are these chicks mine???? Someone just contacted me to say they got a hatch with a high number of four toed chicks... I am freaking... The SF chicken jail backs up to an Lavender Ameraucana pen... If I had an Am roo get over the chicks would be similar I think... But I still would not have expected such high numbers as when I have crossed on purpose for green eggs layers for friends the percentage has been much lower due to the dominance of the five toe gene. Also I would have expected to see some black/grey chicks????

I was out of state for almost two weeks with my mothers death at the beginning of March and I guess it could have happened while I was gone but a stray roo would have to be living in that pen to give those kinds of numbers I think.... Ugh!

She says of 13 hatched 4 have a four and a five toed foot and two have two four toed feet... I am just freaking out!

If anyone got eggs from me recently and had this happen I would really like to hear from you so I can make it right....

Just to let you know. All the chicks I hatched from you March 18th have five toes. Quite good placement also. Beautiful chicks. Thank you so much.

 

[pfmerlin]

Melissa, it happens.-) You produce very pretty birds. We all know that. My condolences on your mother. I feel certain that you, as always, will offer something that will make that person happier. If, for sure it was your chicks. Be well
Peter

 

[Cloverleaf Farm]

Coop-in for the Western National happening in about 7.5 hours!! Can't wait!! Hope we have a great turnout!!!

 

[pfmerlin]

Sandi,
What you have described is most assuredly an incubator creation. I was a bit concerned when you told me you had bought a new hovabator for the eggs I sent you. Misshapen heads, eyes etc are usually due to humidity and heat problems.
Yes, indeed there are vast weather differences between MA and FL. But I'm not going to give that much credence as I know far too many people from your region that hatch w/o the problems you are describing. Do yourself a real favor and get something better to incubate with. When I first started in'92 I too bought a hovabator. There wasn't anything hatched out of that. My own inexperience at that point. When I got my ancient, and I mean ancient red stained 1202 (similar) sportsmans boi what a difference. I have modified my old, old incubator and hatcher, replaced a heating coil and one motor. They still do well. I paid all of $300. for them both. That was in '93. A decent investment for the amount of time I have been using them and other than springing for a larger Brinsea one day I don't have the need to replace them yet.
I do hatch at opposite times than most people. That was a pearl of wisdom given to me by a german geneticist who told me my combs would not be as gross as they get when hatched down here in Jan- March. He was correct.
I'm going to do a combined post here.
The comments that have been made have been generalized that have appeared to be across the board about the breed. While I think it's wonderful that perhaps, perhaps some hatcheries are actually culling for production doesn't give any faith to other breed characteristics that make Faverolles what they are.. I would think White Rocks would be a better choice as really, how hard is it to breed a big white meat chicken.....Not very. I've done it. They also lay pretty good.
When chicks leave here they have been culled from the hatcher for basic characteristics. If somewhere along the line a person rehomes birds/extras that are a result of culled chicks from me I can't claim that those birds have received the PFM approval as adults as I haven't seen them since they were chicks. This is the reason everyone has witnessed me get a bit testy. Over the years I have very seldom sent eggs. They come from me and sometimes people keep birds they shouldn't but tout my name on it. No one produces 100% correct chicks of any breed. My flock is no exception. I have reclosed my flock and will only be doing egg exchanges with very few. Those will be breeders that will cull and not pass junk on.
I do apologize in advance if my post is offensive to some. It is intended as just info.
My best to all on their hatches.
I will prefer any responses to be done in pvt message.
Peter

Ok so the Merlin hatch is finished, I got 18 out of 27 to develop, and 11 of those made it to hatch, 4 of which needed assistance to break free of their shells. 2 are "Sum" babies, the rest are "Mar", got the "Sum" babies banded to keep them separate. Got 2 definite culls; a chick with slightly bulgy eyes who pipped on the wrong end and needed help, and a chick with a tiny head who seems fine other then that difference. Both are out of the bigger group.

I opened all 7 of the eggs that failed to pip, and none had internally pipped, so they all were very early quitters. They were all developed to term except 2. I have a batch of OEGB babies that hatched with them and they all (22) popped out no problem, they all came from the same incubator. I do dry incubation, which keeps everything around 20-25%, then move everybody to a hatcher that runs about 60% humidity. I am thinking the dry weather might have caused some problems for the bigger eggs? They looked like normal term chicks except for the 2 that looked to have died around day 15.

I am very pleased with the number that hatched, as I got a hatch rate around 40%, wish I could have done something for the ones that quit, but I try not to ever help them... broke that rule 4 times with this bunch, but only because they seemed exhausted and their shells had been zipped around for nearly 8 hours. They are very tired babies! LOL I had to put them separate from the bantams because the zippy lil OEGBs were driving them crazy with their running around while the Favs were trying to nap. All in all very pleased with how they did, and the 2 "Sum" babies are very typey and uniform even as chicks, almost did not need to band them. Looking forward to growing them out and seeing how they turn out. Toes were nice right across the board, got one with a thin beard but maybe they will fluff out in a few days.

 

[pasofinofarm]

Thank you so much for the comforting words Peter. I just hate for anyone to be disappointed and a good hatch means so much to people. I feel just terrible.

My poor buyer is sending chick pics. I'll know more then.

 

[Cloverleaf Farm]

I will be checking back in here in a couple of hours to see if anyone needs anything added to the meeting agenda before I head out. Have a great day everyone!!