Feather picking, pinless peepers, and diet

[Fishychick]

I've had chickens almost 20 years and have never had feather picking and eating problems until the ones I have now. My questions are regarding the five hens that I have together. Three are 2.5 years old and two are 1.5 years old (their babies and the victims of most of the attacks). I separated roosters from the flock at the beginning of the year, and now, without them as referees, it's resulted in the following dynamics.

Daffy - dominant hen, just missing some tail feathers, chases everyone and bites hard when she catches you, got her Masters degree in eating feathers

Billie - stealth feather snacker but laid back and hides under the radar, only recently is missing some back feathers (could be molting but suspect Daffy)

Perky - loves to fast chase and torment Duclinea and Ariel (who she hatched and raised by the way even though they are Bille's biological daughters), missing all her back feathers and many tail and wing feathers probably due to Daffy; Perky has a Ph.D. in feather dining; she will sit by Dulcie or Ariel and just eat them while they scream

Dulcinea - Dulcie is sweet but almost completely naked and underweight; she failed the abillity to initiate ramp climbing to get out of the way and just lets everyone eat her; she finally had nice feathers come in one day when I went to work and when I got home, there were just bloody holes where the feathers had been; I put her up in the loft every day where she is safe if she stays put

Ariel - high strung Ariel can use the ramps but, if she has an egg to lay, she will sit on the ground laying while Perky dines on her; missing back, tail, and wing feathers

I have built extensive ramp systems all over the pen up to a loft (shingle covered plywood area with food and water) and house for Dulcie and Ariel to get out of the way, and they eat up there. They have plenty of room, multiple nest boxes, multiple food and water stations on and off the ground.

Yesterday, I couldn't take it (the screaming of hens being feather plucked) anymore, especially with cold weather here and put pinless peepers on Daffy, Billie, and Perky even though I promised I wouldn't torture them again. I've used them before but after up to a month, as soon as they come off, the attacks resume. So, this morning, Perky is eating but Daffy and Billie are just trying to see, and they can't seem to see anything and are not eating. The pinless peepers are torture devices but at least Ariel and Dulcie aren't being attacked. It seems my choices are keep the pinless peepers on and those three hens eventually die or take them off and the other two die. I can't separate any more areas plus now there are multiple hens attacking each other so I would need five areas just for the five hens!

I changed foods earlier this year but both are 16% protein, organic feeds. I also feed fruits, vegetables, dried mealworms.

Here are my questions.

1. What % protein is needed to prevent feather eating?
2. Do you think they're eating the feathers due to diet issues or behavioral?
3. How long can I safely keep the pinless peepers on, especially if a hen does not seem to be eating or drinking?
4. How long have you kept pinless peepers on before? Did they work? My hens always revert as soon as they come off.
5. What supplements can/should I feed to reduce feather eating?

Please don't attack me and tell me I'm not "managing" my flock and not killing the offenders and so on. My chickens are my velociraptor pets and not farm animals. I don't eat them. I don't eat their eggs. I give the eggs away for free. Is it too much to ask that they don't kill each other? I think my mistake was taking the roosters out. Even though they were ripping the sides of the hens open which was also kiling them, there was never feather eating while they were with their girls. Either way, I lose, or rather, the hens lose. That's it. When these guys are gone, I'm never having chickens again. I spent $20,000 to upgrade their house and run and now I'm spending that much more per year than I make (until inheritance runs out). So, you don't need to attack me, I am the stupid one. I have a Masters degree too but, like Daffy's in feather eating, mine gets me a low paying job 24 years later. This is also my last post here because I need to stop feeding you guys to attack me. I'm not murdering any of my chickens to please you. Good bye.

 

[Mrs. K]

I think that the ones with the pin-less peepers will figure out how to eat and drink. Leave them on.

I think they are molting. They are the right age to molt, and if you are in the USA this is the time molting starts. I have a rooster, that looks terrible right now. But slowly the feathers are coming in.

A picture of your set up, might give some clues as to how to help you. In my own set up, I use a lot of clutter to give birds ways to get away and out of sight of each other. I have mini walls set up, platforms, and roosts in my run. I also feed in multiple places, and where I feed I have it set up, so that a bird feeding at one station cannot see a bird eating at another. This could help you.

I wish you the best, chickens can get some very ugly behaviors that can become habits which are difficult to break. Leave the pin-less peepers on, most birds do adapt to them over time. It is kind of like wearing glasses, though, they have to get used to them.

Mrs K

 

[Fishychick]

Thanks, Mrs. K. I know what molting looks like. Dulcie had new feathers coming in a few weeks ago, finally popped from their shafts, gorgeous. When I got home, all bloody and torn out. Her tails feathers are always bleeding. That's not molting. My 5 roosters are molting now and never look completely naked for 6 months straight. Photos don't do Chickentopia justice and never look like it really looks. Plus, it takes hours I don't have to process photos off my digital camera. I used to keep updated photos on my web site but I am so far behind. I have had to learn to give up. My photo on the left is the four babies I hatched to start with the renovated chicken castle in April 2018. I should never have done it but I was tired of looking at the old chicken house and run and knowing that all good things were gone. All the animals and people and my life have died one by one. I need to prep for the end of all the plants and animals I've devoted my life to because I will not live much longer. One day the bulldozers will come, and Chickentopia will be destroyed. Chickentopia has two houses, three runs, a walkway on top, a swing (me and chickens but they won't use theirs), sliding board (for me), two nest boxes, dozens of roosts and ramps. I need to go build another ramp now.

 

[WaveyCreekChickens]

I sincerely hope you and your chickens are doing better now!
Did Duffy, Perky and Billie learn to eat and drink now?

The reason I am asking is that I finally broke down and put Pinless Peepers on my bully Henny Penny last night after their supper. She manages to get up and down their chcikens stand, which is where they roost. But I don’t think she had any breakfast yet.
(Interestingly enough she uses her “words” when she sees her victim Becky Pecky, and the words still work.)
I am wondering how long it will take for her to find the food.
Thanks!

 

[Fishychick]

They are better in some ways. I lasted a week before I took the peepers off of Billie because she was just standing in one place, sulking, not eating well. I made it another week before I took them off Perky because she was hiding in one of the nest boxes acting like she was going to die (she's a good actress?). The peepers are still on Daffy who is the worst at ripping feathers out. I have not seen Billie or Perky actively chasing or ripping feathers in the last week but, of course, I'm at work most of the time. Daffy will rip feathers from Ariel when Ariel comes near her, even with the peepers on. I also have been feeding them calf manna which is high in protein and put "No Pick" grape goop all over the naked parts of the hens. Dulcie had nice feathers coming in, and then today, when I got home, half of them were all bloody and ripped off. I don't know who is doing it for sure. Winter is coming, and a naked hen can die from exposure. I'm really out of ideas at this point. Daffy is eating OK but she is not comfortable with the peepers. I'll have to take them off at some point, and then, I'm back to where I started. None of the hens could roost with the peepers on. Daffy is sleeping in the nest box which I don't like because of the poop. Daffy has adapted to eating. She pecks and misses a lot of the time because she can't see. She's a frizzle so she can't see down like a regular hen with the peepers on. Daffy is slow but that doesn't stop her from being dominant and an expert at ripping out feathers. It shouldn't be this hard.

 

[WaveyCreekChickens]

Thanks for the update. I feel bad for you. You are right, it shouldn’t be this hard!
I took the peepers off of HennyPenny this morning, because when I watched her trying to eat I realized I put them on upside down! (She onlyhad them on since the night before).
Because I was alone I couldn’t put them on her again, so she got away with a warning.
But after reading your thread, my bully hen isn’t nearly as bad.
I will keep observing and use the peepers if she gets bad again.

 

[Rushdoggie]

The reason I am asking is that I finally broke down and put Pinless Peepers on my bully Henny Penny last night after their supper. She manages to get up and down their chcikens stand, which is where they roost. But I don’t think she had any breakfast yet.

My great extensive experience of one: My mean b*tch got over it in 2 days. She had no issues eating, drinking or roosting. When we gave treats we made sure she got hers because she'd have a hard time finding them in our hands. She wore them for about 9 months. Every time I thought about taking them off there was some issue that was a potential stressor to the group so I waited. Finally I decided to see what happened. I took it off, she immediately ran up to the other birds and expressed her dominance by flying right at her flock mates and butting chests, the other submitted to her, and they have peacefully co-existed since (3 months).

 

[Dinogrrl]

My Wyandotte She-Ra has worn her peepers for about two years now - no problems eating, drinking, preening, noticing approaching danger, or bossing the other chickens around! She's still nipped one of my EE's tail feather a couple times even with the peepers on. But she can't 'target' to pull out feathers and peck the other chickens bloody, which is why she got the glasses of shame to begin with. There's been no noticeable issues with her nostrils or beak or comb either--she's been to the vet a couple times since they were placed and the vet said they could stay on forever if needed. Given how badly she's been bossing the one EE, I have a feeling if I removed the peepers she'd start pecking the poor thing bloody in short order.

My RIR Yori used to eat feathers all the time. Only her own that she molted out. Never She-Ra's. It was so weird how specific she was about it. I tried increasing protein in her diet by giving her plenty of mealworms, I tried letting her free-roam more, I tried giving her more scraps for snacks...nothing changed it. The moment she saw one of her own feathers on the grown, she's slurp it right on up like a spaghetti noodle. It was the weirdest thing. I think it was just a habit for her.
She was subordinate to She-Ra and she was the better layer of the two. Maybe that had something to do with it? I have no idea.

 

[Weeg]

I think that the ones with the pin-less peepers will figure out how to eat and drink. Leave them on.

I HIGHLY suggest you don't use these! They go in the nostrils for goodness sake! There are much more humane ways to deal with the issue!

 

[Dinogrrl]

@Weeg what other ways do you suggest?