Feed advice for pullets and older hens

[everyday_farmlife]

Sorry, it feels like I'm posting on here a lot lately!

I have 2 questions;
1. What do people feed their growers? I was/am feeding mine riverina grower crumble (I'm in Australia) HOWEVER I only realised today that the protein is only 15%!
I looked at both the Riverina red label coarse layer and the mi-feed layer pellets that I feed the hens and both of them are also 15%
I feel like it isn't high enough? For either of them. While the young hens are laying well (sussex 12m old) their fathers seem dull and ratty, the older hens (also sussex but 4+yo only lay an egg when they feel like it, they also look dull) we are mid spring and I feel terrible about it! What percentage should I look for!? For both the growers and the hens?

2. My second question (sorry this is turning into an essay!) I recently bought 3 hens who were in with let's just say wayyy to many roosters and they have very few back feathers. I have put cloth saddles on them to protect them from being pecked ect they are still in quarantine with the new roo I got (with them). Should I seperate him entirely? They were in with the wrong breed anyways so I can't collect her eggs for the incubator for 3-4 weeks anyways (2weeks to eliminate GLW and 1-2 weeks to become positively fertile from this LS roo.)
Is there a feed I can give them to help faster feather regrowth? Gamebird finisher MP? is that too high?
is there any snacks I can make? Tuna and lentil snacks? How often a day/week?

 

[rosemarythyme]

15% is a little low, 16% in the US is considered the baseline. Since you brought up gamebird feed, what's the protein on that? Maybe you can mix some into the grower crumble to bump up the protein overall.

 

[everyday_farmlife]

15% is a little low, 16% in the US is considered the baseline. Since you brought up gamebird feed, what's the protein on that? Maybe you can mix some into the grower crumble to bump up the protein overall.

Gamebird is 22%
Chick starter is 20% (I'm thinking of mixing this 50/50 with the grower for my pullets
Turkey starter is 28% in considering giving my day olds this for the first 14 days

 

[rosemarythyme]

28% is quite high. I know some folks like fast growth (like for meat birds) but too much protein can cause long term issues too. The chick starter would be appropriate for chicks, or mixing in with grower for older birds.

 

[Sussex19]

You could check this brand out, https://thevellagroup.com.au/product/category/poultry-grower-starter/
It's what I use, and I've been very happy with it, and it says that it's got 18% protein.

 

[LadiesAndJane]

I feed all my birds an “All Flock” type of crumble. Not sure what the equivalent would be in Australia but it is 20% protein. Appropriate for all ages of poultry. I believe this would be a good amount of protein to help with feather regrowth as well.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

So.... BYC is dominated by posters from the US, self included. and in the US, protein is (relatively) cheap, so the US feeds tend to have higher protein than the rest of the world, because our protein tends to be lower nutritional quality. Our (the US) normal is more of mid quality, while the EU and elsewhere often begins with the same low quality (usually corn) base, and adds less of more expensive, higher quality, protein and/or amino acid suppliments to make up the difference. The EU is, frankly, better than us at amino acid supplimentation in animal feeds - they have to be, they have much less land for quality grain and legume production. The rest of the developing world (China, India, etc) isn't far behind. That knowledge is being adopted widely, except (seemingly) here in the US "backyard" market.

Since protein (together with a set of basic feed assumptions) is simply an analog for what we are really interested in, I suggest we dig down into the weeds, instead of generalizng.

Here is the guaranteed nutritional analysis for your feed, mentioned above.

15% Protein, that's the Analog.

1% Calcium - yup, that's not a "layer" mix

0.66% Lysine Adequate, but not the 0.9%+ (1.1% target) you want to see in a meat bird mix. This is pretty close to the old recommendations as a maintenance level for adult (breeder) roosters and laying hens.

0.29% Methionine. Met is responsible for connective tissue development, development of the gut, and a host of other functions. No protein creation starts without Methionine (though the Met may be stripped off of it before the molecule is complete). That's why its usually considered the #1 most limiting amino acid. 0.3% used to be considered the minimum for adult laying hens, newer studies suggest high production layers do better at 0.4% minimum +/-, and growing pulets need much more. 0.5-0.7% is target for the studied birds, dropping off rapidly as they age.

"Excess" protein in the short term isn't problematic, except that its expensive, wasteful, and results in high production of both urates and ammonia. For ducks and other waterfowl, it can result in increased incidence of "Angel wing", particularly when fed to hatchlings and juveniles at rates over 24%. For chickens, its generally fine - but as I said, wasteful.

The other numbers on this feed are generally where I would expect them to be.
My recomendation, which you should absolutely feel free to ignore - I'm just an anonymous voice on the internet - is to blend that feed with a higher protein feed with the intent of increasing the Lys and Met levels, if you can do so in cost effective manner. Such as mixing 1:1 with their broiler starter crumbles (or even using the broiler Starter straight up for the first 4-8 weeks of life, their most critical period. Alternatively, you could look at supplimenting with a high quality protein source, like 5% fish meal - as long as you can blend consistently. Chicks don't eat much, so there won't be a lot of "averaging out" if its not well blended

 

[saysfaa]

So.... BYC is dominated by posters from the US, self included. and in the US, protein is (relatively) cheap, so the US feeds tend to have higher protein than the rest of the world, because our protein tends to be lower nutritional quality. Our (the US) normal is more of mid quality, while the EU and elsewhere often begins with the same low quality (usually corn) base, and adds less of more expensive, higher quality, protein and/or amino acid suppliments to make up the difference. The EU is, frankly, better than us at amino acid supplimentation in animal feeds ...

So, this particular feed has about the same Met as is common in the US. So it isn't a good example for the rest of this post.

But is it true that European chicken feeds often have lower overall protein successfully because they have higher percentages of Met, and the other most limiting amino acids?

I think that is what you are saying here. And what I have read in other places.

So, two takeaways from that. If you aren't in the US, you don't necessarily need to worry about have that slightly lower overall protein. And if you are in the US, you need to be careful not to see the successes in Europe and think they will apply in the US too.

Did I get that straight?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

So, this particular feed has about the same Met as is common in the US. So it isn't a good example for the rest of this post.

But is it true that European chicken feeds often have lower overall protein successfully because they have higher percentages of Met, and the other most limiting amino acids?

I think that is what you are saying here. And what I have read in other places.

So, two takeaways from that. If you aren't in the US, you don't necessarily need to worry about have that slightly lower overall protein. And if you are in the US, you need to be careful not to see the successes in Europe and think they will apply in the US too.

Did I get that straight?

Yes, almost exactly.

To add further context, I generalized based on what I've seen of the research, and the feed labels, from the EU countries, and some of the others. Australia, of course, is not part of the EU, which is a limit in my comparisons, in spite of close ties to Britain (EU no longer).

Even so, that Met level is as low as you will likely see in the US, apart from specialized (and in my view, deficient) feeds based on a Vegan, Chemical-Free (or dl-Methionine limited), likely Soy-free formulation. Its certainly lower than you would normally expect in what purports to be a "Grower"formulation, where a 0.4% (minimum) Methionine level is more common here in the US.

 

[NatJ]

Gamebird is 22%
Chick starter is 20% (I'm thinking of mixing this 50/50 with the grower for my pullets
Turkey starter is 28% in considering giving my day olds this for the first 14 days

For simplicity, I would probably just use 20% chick starter for all of your chickens, of all ages, with no mixing required.

Unless it costs too much or there is some other reason not to. And yes, of course use up what you have rather than throwing it away-- just change when you next need to buy some.