Feed advice for pullets and older hens

[everyday_farmlife]

So.... BYC is dominated by posters from the US, self included. and in the US, protein is (relatively) cheap, so the US feeds tend to have higher protein than the rest of the world, because our protein tends to be lower nutritional quality. Our (the US) normal is more of mid quality, while the EU and elsewhere often begins with the same low quality (usually corn) base, and adds less of more expensive, higher quality, protein and/or amino acid suppliments to make up the difference. The EU is, frankly, better than us at amino acid supplimentation in animal feeds - they have to be, they have much less land for quality grain and legume production. The rest of the developing world (China, India, etc) isn't far behind. That knowledge is being adopted widely, except (seemingly) here in the US "backyard" market.

Since protein (together with a set of basic feed assumptions) is simply an analog for what we are really interested in, I suggest we dig down into the weeds, instead of generalizng.

Here is the guaranteed nutritional analysis for your feed, mentioned above.

15% Protein, that's the Analog.

1% Calcium - yup, that's not a "layer" mix

0.66% Lysine Adequate, but not the 0.9%+ (1.1% target) you want to see in a meat bird mix. This is pretty close to the old recommendations as a maintenance level for adult (breeder) roosters and laying hens.

0.29% Methionine. Met is responsible for connective tissue development, development of the gut, and a host of other functions. No protein creation starts without Methionine (though the Met may be stripped off of it before the molecule is complete). That's why its usually considered the #1 most limiting amino acid. 0.3% used to be considered the minimum for adult laying hens, newer studies suggest high production layers do better at 0.4% minimum +/-, and growing pulets need much more. 0.5-0.7% is target for the studied birds, dropping off rapidly as they age.

"Excess" protein in the short term isn't problematic, except that its expensive, wasteful, and results in high production of both urates and ammonia. For ducks and other waterfowl, it can result in increased incidence of "Angel wing", particularly when fed to hatchlings and juveniles at rates over 24%. For chickens, its generally fine - but as I said, wasteful.

The other numbers on this feed are generally where I would expect them to be.
My recomendation, which you should absolutely feel free to ignore - I'm just an anonymous voice on the internet - is to blend that feed with a higher protein feed with the intent of increasing the Lys and Met levels, if you can do so in cost effective manner. Such as mixing 1:1 with their broiler starter crumbles (or even using the broiler Starter straight up for the first 4-8 weeks of life, their most critical period. Alternatively, you could look at supplimenting with a high quality protein source, like 5% fish meal - as long as you can blend consistently. Chicks don't eat much, so there won't be a lot of "averaging out" if its not well blended

Thankyou very much for your detailed reply it makes sense.
My chicks currently get 20% on the riverina chick starter until 8 weeks old then I was switching them over to grower.
I don't have a lot of growers 20max at any given time so I can easily blend the starter and grower at 50/50.
We want to start doing our own mealworms... would they be any value in addition to the riverina red label coarse layer mash? I know it is a grain blend but my sussexs are damn fussy and won't lay unless they get this with at least 50% of their mi feed pellets. Come to think of it their feathers actually looked better when they were 100% on this too! The drawback is they eat it like a lolly the same amount in pellets last almost a week they go through the grain in less than a day.
They also get 6-8 hours of free ranging

 

[everyday_farmlife]

For simplicity, I would probably just use 20% chick starter for all of your chickens, of all ages, with no mixing required.

Unless it costs too much or there is some other reason not to. And yes, of course use up what you have rather than throwing it away-- just change when you next need to buy some.

Thanks NatJ it isn't really that much dearer in comparison maybe $10 more a bag compared to the mi feed pellets but legit only $2-3 dearer than grower and red label

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Thankyou very much for your detailed reply it makes sense.
My chicks currently get 20% on the riverina chick starter until 8 weeks old then I was switching them over to grower.
I don't have a lot of growers 20max at any given time so I can easily blend the starter and grower at 50/50.
We want to start doing our own mealworms... would they be any value in addition to the riverina red label coarse layer mash? I know it is a grain blend but my sussexs are damn fussy and won't lay unless they get this with at least 50% of their mi feed pellets. Come to think of it their feathers actually looked better when they were 100% on this too! The drawback is they eat it like a lolly the same amount in pellets last almost a week they go through the grain in less than a day.
They also get 6-8 hours of free ranging

Mealworms are an insect protein source - that's generally higher levels of Met and Lys than any plant source. They are relatively high in fat, but the feed you are using is (compared to many US formulations) lower in fat, so its not as much a concern as it is here. Particularly if you feed live, rather than dried (dried concentrates everything, for good or ill - so more protein good, but also more fat - bad). Also, expensive. But for many brands available here, adding 10% (by weight) dried mealworm to what you feed will increased crude protein 4-5%, and increase fat 2.5-3%, which roughly doubles their fat intake.

If you raise your own, its cheaper, less concentrated (because of all the water - roughly 60%), but they will concentrate whatever they eat...
Locally, I find its cheaper to either stick with a better feed to start (such as your 20% Starter), or to mix a high quality feed (I use a 24% game bird grower) with a cheaper, lower density, source to hit my desired numbers, as compared with an insect supplimentation plan.

and I free range mine, so I have to consider that they will get varying amounts of live insects and seeds (dense nutrition but high fat) sources throughout the year as well. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good to very good. You can overthink this. I have.

 

[everyday_farmlife]

H

Mealworms are an insect protein source - that's generally higher levels of Met and Lys than any plant source. They are relatively high in fat, but the feed you are using is (compared to many US formulations) lower in fat, so its not as much a concern as it is here. Particularly if you feed live, rather than dried (dried concentrates everything, for good or ill - so more protein good, but also more fat - bad). Also, expensive. But for many brands available here, adding 10% (by weight) dried mealworm to what you feed will increased crude protein 4-5%, and increase fat 2.5-3%, which Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good to very good. You can overthink this. I have.

Hey, so I can't give my layers the chick starter as it has a WHP for meat And eggs

They are no longer getting as much free range time as we've had something going around (courtesy of our native wild birds)
we also have 3 different breeds we now have to keep seperate so they have to take turns and spend more time in the runs. They get fresh greens and garden scraps but...
Do you think I could possibly give them some soaked cracked lupins a couple of times a week to supplement the layer pellets?
The brand I already have (we use for horses) is;
Digestible Energy (MJ/kg) 14.6
% Crude Protein 28
% Crude Fibre 12
% Fat 5.4
% Lysine 1.4
% Methionine 0.22
If you don't mind sharing your thoughts, thanks

 

[everyday_farmlife]

I should probably also mention that there has been a dramatic decrease in egg production, not good when a few of the hens okay most are in their senior years and we really need to preserve their line (only got hold of these hens this year) so we are trying to incubate their eggs

 

[U_Stormcrow]

H

Hey, so I can't give my layers the chick starter as it has a WHP for meat And eggs

They are no longer getting as much free range time as we've had something going around (courtesy of our native wild birds)
we also have 3 different breeds we now have to keep seperate so they have to take turns and spend more time in the runs. They get fresh greens and garden scraps but...
Do you think I could possibly give them some soaked cracked lupins a couple of times a week to supplement the layer pellets?
The brand I already have (we use for horses) is;
Digestible Energy (MJ/kg) 14.6
% Crude Protein 28
% Crude Fibre 12
% Fat 5.4
% Lysine 1.4
% Methionine 0.22
If you don't mind sharing your thoughts, thanks

Yes, you can.

The fiber is pretty high, but that's not a huge problem the way high fat is, or high calcium is, or low protein is. Lysine levels are great, good for muscle development. Met is low - not at all uncommon in plant-based feeds.

 

[everyday_farmlife]

Yes, you can.

The fiber is pretty high, but that's not a huge problem the way high fat is, or high calcium is, or low protein is. Lysine levels are great, good for muscle development. Met is low - not at all uncommon in plant-based feeds.

Thankyou!