Feed Quality- Long Term Effects?

[debbier98]

Welcome to BYC and thank you for your reply!

My flock is doing pretty well...the "Wyandottes" are most likely Columbian Rocks, all have started laying.

The older hens are much the same...I have not seen any evidence of molting, laying has slowed but I'm not always able to tell who lays what. At least 2 of the 3 are laying soft shelled eggs. One had a crop issue, and is a bully. She'll be harvested whenever things calm down.

My girls have enjoyed a small amount of black oil sunflower seeds combined with their daily handful of scratch. I can't find a higher protein feed that I like in my area, so I've been serving scrambled egg a couple times a week.

Where are you located?

Hi, thank you for your suggestion. I live in the High Desert of Southern California. I have a variety of breeds. My girls seem to like the colder weather more than our scorching summers. They seem to lay better in the cooler weather, but not really crazy about our sub freezing nights.

 

[debbier98]

according to the newer science, to assist chickens with winter temperatures, you are better off adding energy to the diet in the form of things like Corn, not fat directly, due to the differences in the way the body metabolizes carbs (creates heat) versus fat (does not).

That said, the adjustments are VERY minor, I'm going to continue to recommend a nutritionally complete feed all the time, with any suppliments and/or additions kept below 10% of the total daily diet. At least until the science is far more thoroughly researched.. Even then, I won't be doing it because I don't get the extremes of weather that would justify such feed changes.

Just alerting you to the state of the current research. Which (as is typical for most poultry research) is focused on maximizing production in the first year or so, NOT (necessarily) long term health (pet).

Thank you for your suggestion U_Stormcrow. I'll give that a try as they like corn and seeds of all kinds, and definetly like fresh greens.

 

[MadGardener]

Hi, thank you for your suggestion. I live in the High Desert of Southern California. I have a variety of breeds. My girls seem to like the colder weather more than our scorching summers. They seem to lay better in the cooler weather, but not really crazy about our sub freezing nights.

My gals are handling the cooler temps much better than hot summers as well.

I've been doing a lot of research on winter care. In my neck of the woods, low temps rarely get to single digits. From what I've gleaned there really isn't much I'd need to do aside from keeping the birds dry and out of the wind.

I have added some plastic to the lower open part of the crappy prefab coop until the new coop is complete. I have also added a little lean-to with clear roof and roost (will swap out for metal when it heats up).

I am trying to increase protein more for expecting a molt than the cold. If you regularly stay above 0 I wouldn't worry too much unless you notice problems.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

My gals are handling the cooler temps much better than hot summers as well.

I've been doing a lot of research on winter care. In my neck of the woods, low temps rarely get to single digits. From what I've gleaned there really isn't much I'd need to do aside from keeping the birds dry and out of the wind.

I have added some plastic to the lower open part of the crappy prefab coop until the new coop is complete. I have also added a little lean-to with clear roof and roost (will swap out for metal when it heats up).

I am trying to increase protein more for expecting a molt than the cold. If you regularly stay above 0 I wouldn't worry too much unless you notice problems.

^^^ exactly that. HEAT is a much bigger problem for chickens than cold. They can't sweat, and they can't take off their down jackets. Doesn't leave them many options.

 

[debbier98]

My gals are handling the cooler temps much better than hot summers as well.

I've been doing a lot of research on winter care. In my neck of the woods, low temps rarely get to single digits. From what I've gleaned there really isn't much I'd need to do aside from keeping the birds dry and out of the wind.

I have added some plastic to the lower open part of the crappy prefab coop until the new coop is complete. I have also added a little lean-to with clear roof and roost (will swap out for metal when it heats up).

I am trying to increase protein more for expecting a molt than the cold. If you regularly stay above 0 I wouldn't worry too much unless you notice problems.

Same here, our area rarely gets to single digits, but we do fairly regularly get temps in the teans at night. Last year we added a patio type roof to the barn so they can get out of the wind during real windy days, and out of the rain. Like you, I have increased their protein intake, and I've read alot on adding fat to their diet, some say it's necessary, others not as much, like you they believe extra protein is the answer. Which for me is great, because it's easy for me to add extra protein, not so easy for me to add fat, as my girls and Bubba (my roster he is a huge guy ) don't seem to like things like the freeze dried bugs etc. but I think I'll try adding some cracked corn to their feed for the winter.

 

[MadGardener]

Same here, our area rarely gets to single digits, but we do fairly regularly get temps in the teans at night. Last year we added a patio type roof to the barn so they can get out of the wind during real windy days, and out of the rain. Like you, I have increased their protein intake, and I've read alot on adding fat to their diet, some say it's necessary, others not as much, like you they believe extra protein is the answer. Which for me is great, because it's easy for me to add extra protein, not so easy for me to add fat, as my girls and Bubba (my roster he is a huge guy ) don't seem to like things like the freeze dried bugs etc. but I think I'll try adding some cracked corn to their feed for the winter.

I'm definitely no expert, but it seems like higher protein foods generally contain more fat than starchy foods. After meeting minimum fat requirements I wonder how much is useful, and at what point it could become harmful. I would imagine chickens get high cholesterol too

Having a place (or three) to get out of the rain and wind sounds like a good bet!

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I'm definitely no expert, but it seems like higher protein foods generally contain more fat than starchy foods. After meeting minimum fat requirements I wonder how much is useful, and at what point it could become harmful. I would imagine chickens get high cholesterol too

Having a place (or three) to get out of the rain and wind sounds like a good bet!

Many feeds get their protein boosts, in part, from seeds like BOSS - which are high protein, yes, but also high fat. Legumes work too, and are much lower fat, but have anti-nutritive properties that need to be addressed (usually via heat treatment) - soy is a good example. Often, its a matter of cost.

The typical recommends are 18-20% protein (can do less, yes - but since US feeds don't disclose Amino Acid profiles, generally better - particularly mixed age, breed, gender flocks - to err a little high on protein in hopes of a better over all AA profile), 3.5%+/- fiber (max about 5.5%), 3.5%+/- fat (up to 5% (up to 7% for CX being fattened for table).

Still, it **appears** that many brands make one base feed, then "tinker" with it to make multiple options - by adding calcium sources (layer), adding protein and maybe another scoop of vita-mix (all flock), a binder (pellets), and/or a bit of Amprolium (medicated) - but 95% of the feed seems to be identical in all the options, its the last 5% where the different options are "made".

 

[debbier98]

Many feeds get their protein boosts, in part, from seeds like BOSS - which are high protein, yes, but also high fat. Legumes work too, and are much lower fat, but have anti-nutritive properties that need to be addressed (usually via heat treatment) - soy is a good example. Often, its a matter of cost.

The typical recommends are 18-20% protein (can do less, yes - but since US feeds don't disclose Amino Acid profiles, generally better - particularly mixed age, breed, gender flocks - to err a little high on protein in hopes of a better over all AA profile), 3.5%+/- fiber (max about 5.5%), 3.5%+/- fat (up to 5% (up to 7% for CX being fattened for table).

Still, it **appears** that many brands make one base feed, then "tinker" with it to make multiple options - by adding calcium sources (layer), adding protein and maybe another scoop of vita-mix (all flock), a binder (pellets), and/or a bit of Amprolium (medicated) - but 95% of the feed seems to be identical in all the options, its the last 5% where the different options are "made".

That sounds lodgical. I feed my girls an organic feed which is only 17% protein so I always have to supplement their feed, especially in the winter, to increase the protein. I use a mix of shreded raw carrots, red bell peppers, kale, and cooked broccoli rabe as treats for them in the afternoon, and during the day aside from eating their food they really enjoy getting into the bails of alfalfa - they, like the horse, like the leaves. So I think, based on your response and a few others, I'll stick to what I'm feeding them and forget about trying to find ways to add more fat. Nothing worse that obese chickens

 

[Shadrach]

I acquired a flock of chickens from a couple who was moving in August. 1 ISA Brown, 2 Golden Comets, and 7 Columbian Wyandottes. The Wyandottes hatched around Easter 2021, the brown gals are of unknown age.

The chickens and all of their gear were free in exchange for pulling down a half fallen pine! However, all chickens were confined and fed only cracked corn when we got them. The older gals had not been laying.

I have switched them to 16% layer feed on mobile pasture. They have access to grit and oyster shell. The older hens started laying about a week after we got them. Overall the gals seem happy. Their poops look normal now, not so much on the corn.

I am seeing soft shell eggs fairly regularly from one or more of the older hens. This seemed to improve with a vitamin supplement added to their water, but a month later has reappeared. Could this be due to prolonged inadequate diet?

Is much known about the long term consequences? I'd like to get a roo in the spring and work toward a self sustaining flock. Would poorly fed gals be suitable to breed? One of the Wyandottes is massive and matured much earlier, traits I'd like to select for. Thanks!

I'm interested in this.
Yes diet has an enormous impact on long term health much as it does with humans.
You've had lots of advice on feeds, amino acids, protein content, calcium levels and how to provide it.
I'm going to tell you a rather different story; chickens are not Vegans. A bit of a suprise that isn't it. Chickens are seriously omniverous. The commercial feed producers don't seem to want acknowldge this. They used to when fish products were still added to feed but all that became unprofitable once regulations about what fish and where it came from entered the equation.
There are many amino acids and many ways to make up the seven amino acids required to make a complete protein for chickens. What doesn't get mentioned and what there is little research about is what benefit these extra amino acids may have on the chickens health.
Commercial feeds supply the bare minimum to sustain a chickens life and allow for the production of eggs. Not many feeds have moved on from this.
You will doubtless read you should only feed your chickens commercial feed, in effect, force them to become vegan.

So, the first thing to do is engage a bit of common sense. If chickens are naturally omniverous then shouldn't they be eating a wide variety of feedstuffs? Left to their own devices they'll happpily eat a mouse or two, each other in hard times and just about every bug and creepy crawly you've come accross. They'll also eat a vast range of vegetation and that differs depending on moult status, egg laying status, age and of course what's available.
My advice is if you want healthy chickens don't feed them a vegan diet.

Going for a self sustaining flock is a wonderful idea. You'll need a great deal of patience to do the job properly. You'll need broody hens and a rooster. Getting a few fertile eggs and using an incubator isn't going to achieve a truely self sustain flock for obvious reasons.
Some will tell you the breeds you have won't go broody. Apparently it's been bred out of them. That's not what I read on the more informative threads and hasn't been my experience.
There is nothing that says that if the mother hen is malnourished that ther offspring will be.

Have a go I say. Get your rooster. Let your hens eat fish and meat and use the commercial feed as backup. Free range them if you can. If not get them out onto natural ground as often as possible.

 

[MadGardener]

I'm interested in this.
Yes diet has an enormous impact on long term health much as it does with humans.
You've had lots of advice on feeds, amino acids, protein content, calcium levels and how to provide it.
I'm going to tell you a rather different story; chickens are not Vegans. A bit of a suprise that isn't it. Chickens are seriously omniverous. The commercial feed producers don't seem to want acknowldge this. They used to when fish products were still added to feed but all that became unprofitable once regulations about what fish and where it came from entered the equation.
There are many amino acids and many ways to make up the seven amino acids required to make a complete protein for chickens. What doesn't get mentioned and what there is little research about is what benefit these extra amino acids may have on the chickens health.
Commercial feeds supply the bare minimum to sustain a chickens life and allow for the production of eggs. Not many feeds have moved on from this.
You will doubtless read you should only feed your chickens commercial feed, in effect, force them to become vegan.

So, the first thing to do is engage a bit of common sense. If chickens are naturally omniverous then shouldn't they be eating a wide variety of feedstuffs? Left to their own devices they'll happpily eat a mouse or two, each other in hard times and just about every bug and creepy crawly you've come accross. They'll also eat a vast range of vegetation and that differs depending on moult status, egg laying status, age and of course what's available.
My advice is if you want healthy chickens don't feed them a vegan diet.

Going for a self sustaining flock is a wonderful idea. You'll need a great deal of patience to do the job properly. You'll need broody hens and a rooster. Getting a few fertile eggs and using an incubator isn't going to achieve a truely self sustain flock for obvious reasons.
Some will tell you the breeds you have won't go broody. Apparently it's been bred out of them. That's not what I read on the more informative threads and hasn't been my experience.
There is nothing that says that if the mother hen is malnourished that ther offspring will be.

Have a go I say. Get your rooster. Let your hens eat fish and meat and use the commercial feed as backup. Free range them if you can. If not get them out onto natural ground as often as possible.

Thank you. My in laws have been saving egg cartons for me. I have a good laugh at "vegetarian fed" labels. The only meat I'm hesitant to feeding is pet food grade chicken...figuring human food is less likely to be made from sick chickens. Maybe.

I've been using a mobile pasture set up. I expect I'd lose more chickens than I'd like if I free ranged. I love how it's improving my soil, the chickens get tons of exercise, and my eggs are the richest I've ever had. Plus they can turn compost, spread mulch, and till my new garden plot!

So far it seems that the younger chickens (I was told they are Wyandottes, but I suspect Columbian Rocks) seem much hardier...whether age, breed, or diet related (or a combo) I'll never know.

I'll be ordering some chicks in the spring. I want blue and green eggs so I'll just kinda not tell Hubs that an Ameraucana roo will cost 3 times as much *cough*. If I have a hen go broody by 2023 then I hope I'll be in good shape.