Feed vs Genetic Potential

[SunnySideUpGUAM]

im not trying to rush my pullets, i was just under the impression that it wouldnt hurt!

 

[SunnySideUpGUAM]

and now im thinking more about the switch lol!

 

[Ridgerunner]

I fully agree with June. You don’t know when pullets will start to lay. I’ve had pullets start at 16 weeks, others start at 9 months (about 39 weeks), with most somewhere between 20 and 27 weeks. I have two that just started at 26 weeks.

The commercial operations control when their pullets start laying by genetics, feeding regimen, and lighting regimen. They know when their pullets will start to lay so they can try things like starting calcium early, which had no benefit, by the way. We do not know when ours will start so preloading would carry some risks.

You can take a lot of the guesswork out of this. Keep feeding whatever low calcium feed you are feeding and offer oyster shell on the side. The ones that need the oyster shell for egg shells seem to know instinctively that they need it while the ones that don’t need it won’t eat enough to harm themselves. Since Layer should be less expensive than Grower switch to Layer after they start to lay and that last bag of Grower runs out.

Since I almost always have immature chickens with my flock I never feed Layer. I feed Grower with oyster shell on the side. It works fine.

 

[SunnySideUpGUAM]

thanks guys im not trying to rush my birds into laying, i just thought preloading the calcium would be better than worse. I mean dont they need the right nutrition for their first eggs? i even read on here some people feed layer to the roosters that are in the same pen as the hens, with no issues. so just like everything im thinking it may be bad, or it might have a negative effect at all. plus they are production reds that mature fast and lay earlier than heritage breeds, why not feed them more protein while they are growing since they mature fast and why not feed them layer at 4 1/2 - 5 months since thats when they start laying .


IM NOT TRYING TO MAKE MY BIRDS LAY FASTER, SOONER, EARLIER OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I JUST THOUGHT I WAS SUPPORTING A UTILTY/PRODUCTION BREED THAT IS FAST MATURING AND AN EARLY LAYER!

 

[Egghead_Jr]

It takes years of abusing kidneys with calcium to seriously harm a bird unless it's a chick. Horrible for chicks. Here's the real deal or at least what I believe to be pertinent in the calcium debate. I've read much about this and what's said that makes tremendous sense is if you load up your pullets on calcium prior to laying they will set pelvic bones before they splay out. Those pelvic bones as pullets are still flexible and wont set naturally until birds are in lay. What people are doing is making birds lay smaller eggs (this may be anecdotal) and creating potential for internal laying issues by pushing calcium on developing pullets. A few weeks early wont hurt but starting calcium at 16 weeks is not recommended unless you have Hyline commercial layers or maybe one of the sex links like Amber- think that's the commercial layer. I'm getting old and all the trivia I've learned doesn't seem to stick around anymore but I do know there are very few birds that will lay before or at 18 weeks. Typical is 24 weeks of age. Breeder stock and your 30 weeks plus- ugh! But I digress.

I loved layer feed when I only had hens and didn't incubate/raise chicks. For my situation it's all flock type feeds like non-medicated starter/grower that everyone eats when chicks are growing then they all get a turkey finisher (all flock type feed in pellet form) when the youngest chicks are 12 weeks. The calcium is provided free choice not in feed this way. The laying birds gobble it up and others merely peck at it until they realize it's not a treat. Life made easy. Let the birds decide when they want to eat it. Offer Oyster shell free choice and keep them on an all flock type feed.

Back to earlier in this thread and birds potential with feed. Many feeds don't supply the needed protein for birds to reach their full potential. Let's face it, protein is the expensive part. That and medicating chick feed. Settle for nothing less than 20% when your birds are growing out and when laying 16% is OK, 18% better and let's face it many spoil birds with cracked corn and such that is low in protein. I feed 20% turkey finisher that comes in pellet. Cracked corn is 8%, sunflower 14% and any junk from fridge unless meat is ? percent. My birds are the leftovers consumers. That 20% aids in all the other things they are given when adults. High protein while growing aids in many things but really I guess that's more from a breeders perspective. Starter/grower is usually 18%, I use 20% protein non medicated (everyone is eating it) crumbles for growing birds. Many breeders use 24-28% for growing birds to get full potential. Feather quality and first year size will improve greatly. Will the birds get to that size in second year without higher protein when growing? Yes and maybe. It's mostly for showing potential first year but if a bird can be improved first year at no extra cost why not do it even if you don't show? Unlike American children, larger livestock is a sign of health.

 

[SunnySideUpGUAM]

thanks egghead_jr,

i never heard of extra calcium making pubic bones less flexible but i guess it makes sense. I was always a fan of non medicated higher protein feed! And i want to look into All flock feed but its not yet available locally.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

Yeah, nothing called all flock around here either. For a pellet "all flock" ask for a turkey/gamebird finisher. That will be 20% protein or close to it. Turkey grower is 26-28% and that's far too much for full size pullets and hens. If you look around you can find non medicated starter for crumble feed that's 20%. That is an "all flock" type feed in crumble form. Another way for crumble I think is meat bird finisher. That should be around 20%. Basically an all flock is a feed that any poultry can eat. Doesn't have high calcium and doesn't have the super high protein for meat birds like turkey and cornishX but is still higher protein than chicken grower and layer blends. It's a feed that anything can eat from ducks, chickens to pheasent, turkey and geese. All flocks. You want nice feathers on pheasant so give higher protein yet it's standard to let the chicken feathers suffer in shine and growth? Honestly.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

I have noticed that chickens continue to grow for at least two years, I keep mine on grower a lot longer because I believe they need the extra protein to continue to grow as well as produce eggs, without enough they will start feather picking or egg eating sometimes, I always provide oyster shells for calcium as well as feeding back their shells. After I switched from a layer to an all flock I had my birds molt faster and resume laying quicker, so for me higher protein was warranted.

Back in the day when chicken feed was still just a bunch of stuff mixed together hens didn't start laying until 7-8 months, now they are starting at 4 months. And I practice the old way of adding scratch into their diet to bring down protein to put off laying a bit until they mature more, I don't want my hens starting at 4 months, so feed can have a big effect on laying from what I have seen.

I have also bought birds from a show breeder, they are terrible layers, late to start, low production, despite eating the same feed as the hatchery birds, so breeding behind the birds is also a factor.

In the end I would say it's about 50 percent breeding, and 50 percent feeding.

 

[SunnySideUpGUAM]

nice im currently feeding higher protein (25% gamebird pellet non medicated)for my chicks and pullets, and i was feeding a 16% protein layer feed for my layers, but i just switched to a 20% protein layer. So if i switch my pullets over to 20% layer feed at 18wks im preloading them with calcium, that may or not be good for them, but its definitely enough protein for them to continue growing and have better plummage!

 

[SunnySideUpGUAM]

i think im gonna just stick that feeding regimen or slightly adjust to switching pullets over to layer after they start laying.