Feeding a mixed age flock!

[AustralorpsAU]

Can I feed everything starter grow

Well from what people have been telling me, you feed the whole flock the food required for the youngest chicks/chickens and give extra calcium (shell grit) for the laying hens

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Hi guys

I feed an "all flock" or "flock raiser" and provide oyster shell on the side as I have chicks, hens, and roosters. To much calcium as in the layer feed can cause long term kidney damage. Incidentally when the layers molt, they also don't need the calcium.

Starter feed should be fine for everyone. It just has a little more protein than layer. But not too much (which could also cause kidney problems and gout). You will still need to feed calcium for layers. Also, you can crush the egg shells you have and feed them back to your layers, they love it! It won't hurt them and they turn back into egg shell again. And they won't make the association to egg eating.

If your birds have access to dirt or sand, they should not really need grit. Grit will not hurt the little ones. I NEVER provide grit unless the chicks are in a brooder with NO soil AND I give treats OTHER than the starter feed which has everything needed to digest what's inside.

Hope this helps.

 

[MeepBeep]

Starter feed should be fine for everyone. It just has a little more protein than layer. But not too much (which could also cause kidney problems and gout).

It would take a boat load of excess protein to cause any health issues and no commercial poultry feed has anywhere even remotely close to a level that would cause harm... Unlike calcium that non-laying birds have no practical way to expel from their bodies, the birds body easily expel excess protein in their poop... The few percent points different from layer to an all flock is insignificant for the most part and can even be beneficial if they free range and eat a lot of lower protein greens... If you were to feed them a game bird type feed with even higher protein, the only real negative aspect beyond the larger dent in your pocket book would be that the excess protein is expelled (wasted) and the poop stinks a lot more because of this...

And someone back it was asked if the birds will eat too much grit, the answer is no, if it's offered as a side dish they will only consume what they need this applies to both the calcium grit and the insoluble grit...

 

[EggSighted4Life]

It would take a boat load of excess protein to cause any health issues and no commercial poultry feed has anywhere even remotely close to a level that would cause harm... Unlike calcium that non-laying birds have no practical way to expel from their bodies, the birds body easily expel excess protein in their poop... The few percent points different from layer to an all flock is insignificant for the most part and can even be beneficial if they free range and eat a lot of lower protein greens... If you were to feed them a game bird type feed with even higher protein, the only real negative aspect beyond the larger dent in your pocket book would be that the excess protein is expelled (wasted) and the poop stinks a lot more because of this...

And someone back it was asked if the birds will eat too much grit, the answer is no, if it's offered as a side dish they will only consume what they need this applies to both the calcium grit and the insoluble grit...

I'm not sure about free range birds getting lower protein.... in the greens, maybe. But they also consume tons of bugs (here anyways). Actually, I do use game bird starter mixed with my all flock so I end up with about 24% protein while I have growing chicks. So that was what I would be referring to as the indication of too much. I am going to stand by what I said that too much protein CAN cause problems. But not the amount difference between layer and all flock. As far as I can tell, lots of stuff gets expelled as waste before digesting.... before I started using fermented feed. Now my chickens have virtually solid poops with way less smell than when I was feeding dry layer pellets. Every 10th or so poo is still the gross, runny, smelly stuff. I highly recommend trying fermented feed if you have the time. I believe after doing research that the benefits speak for themselves! Increased nutrient absorption, decreased waste, $ savings, healthier all around birds.

The issue I have with the starter feed I am using is that I just discovered it has DE as 1 of its' ingredients. And I don't use DE and I don't wanna breath it, but I can see dust going into the air when I pour it. I won't buy it again.

And my problem with "all flock" is I can not find it anywhere that is non gmo or corn or soy free. Only layer feed in that style. Wish I could find it at the price Costco sells their organic layer feed!

It is very interesting to see how things are different in other countries!

Best wishes!

 

[MeepBeep]

I'm not sure about free range birds getting lower protein.... in the greens, maybe. But they also consume tons of bugs (here anyways).

Of course this is dependent on location, there is no shortage of 'urban' areas where there is no where near the amount of bugs available, while greens can still be readily available in copious amounts... The way I look at it ounce for ounce I'll bet most free range;backyard' birds have access to much more low protein then high protein options in the urban back yard, but of course that varies by location, there are obviously areas where the opposite will hold true... Consider this if we convert to a dry standard a bug like a meal worm has 53% protein, while random dried greens probably have a dry protein content of give or take 12%, that means to give or take exceed 25% protein the chickens grazing diet would have to be about 1/3 bugs, and I doubt that is likely in many urban environments, especially in neighborhoods where it's trendy to treat the lawns, trees and what not for bugs and weeds...

Actually, I do use game bird starter mixed with my all flock so I end up with about 24% protein while I have growing chicks. So that was what I would be referring to as the indication of too much. I am going to stand by what I said that too much protein CAN cause problems.

Sure too much protein or anything can cause problems but even a 30% protein diet is far from that danger threshold... Also I have to wonder how one would go about feeding a level of protein at a level that actually causes harm due to protein content, basically you would have to feed an all meat diet or highly refined plant meal diet... I suspect the real cause of issues with a 'higher' protein diet is that lack of it being a balanced diet overall, not necessarily the extra protein... No doubt eating only meal worms would not be good for chickens but I argue it's not due to excess protein but instead due to a lack of other necessary nutrients...

One has to also consider the 'quality' of the protein, the reality is a balanced amino acid protein content of 16% can actually be far superior to an unbalanced higher protein feed...

If one looks at this article for example http://japr.oxfordjournals.org/content/18/3/477.full you can see that before synthetic amino acids were developed that to get the proper amounts of amino acids from soy and corn protein the feed had to be about 35.6% protein... This protein level was necessary due to the fact the feed was not nutritionally balanced...

And my problem with "all flock" is I can not find it anywhere that is non gmo or corn or soy free. Only layer feed in that style. Wish I could find it at the price Costco sells their organic layer feed! 

Have you looked at a non-medicated 'starter/grower' there is essentially no significant difference between an 'all flock' and non-medicated starter...

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Of course this is dependent on location, there is no shortage of 'urban' areas where there is no where near the amount of bugs available, while greens can still be readily available in copious amounts... The way I look at it ounce for ounce I'll bet most free range;backyard' birds have access to much more low protein then high protein options in the urban back yard, but of course that varies by location, there are obviously areas where the opposite will hold true... Consider this if we convert to a dry standard a bug like a meal worm has 53% protein, while random dried greens probably have a dry protein content of give or take 12%, that means to give or take exceed 25% protein the chickens grazing diet would have to be about 1/3 bugs, and I doubt that is likely in many urban environments, especially in neighborhoods where it's trendy to treat the lawns, trees and what not for bugs and weeds...
Sure too much protein or anything can cause problems but even a 30% protein diet is far from that danger threshold... Also I have to wonder how one would go about feeding a level of protein at a level that actually causes harm due to protein content, basically you would have to feed an all meat diet or highly refined plant meal diet... I suspect the real cause of issues with a 'higher' protein diet is that lack of it being a balanced diet overall, not necessarily the extra protein... No doubt eating only meal worms would not be good for chickens but I argue it's not due to excess protein but instead due to a lack of other necessary nutrients...

One has to also consider the 'quality' of the protein, the reality is a balanced amino acid protein content of 16% can actually be far superior to an unbalanced higher protein feed...

If one looks at this article for example http://japr.oxfordjournals.org/content/18/3/477.full you can see that before synthetic amino acids were developed that to get the proper amounts of amino acids from soy and corn protein the feed had to be about 35.6% protein... This protein level was necessary due to the fact the feed was not nutritionally balanced...
Have you looked at a non-medicated 'starter/grower' there is essentially no significant difference between an 'all flock' and non-medicated starter...

Well, I can't really argue with most of what you are saying. Every bit of how one cares for their animals is different according to the environment they are in and what works or does not work for them and their lifestyle or goals. I will glance at that article when I get a chance. Sounds like you have certainly done a lot of research and you seem to be passionate as well. I love to learn something new every day. I was only sharing the tid bit I knew, though I didn't go that far in to detail.

I will actually consider looking at the organic non medicated starter for poultry instead of game birds, maybe it won't have DE either. I don't know why I hadn't considered it. But this is a learning and growing process, and that's why I participate!

 

[Upontheroost]

Here's a link to my video on how I made a food barrier beteen the hens and chicks.

 

[trifecta]

FYI, at least here in QLD, I had a heck of a problem finding an appropriate grower feed for my now very mixed age chicken flock. Chicken math hit hard here! Just make sure whatever grower feed you are using is NON-MEDICATED. Do not trust the guy down at the local produce to know the difference. The only brand I found that was non-medicated was the Laucke Red Hen formulas. Right now I have 3 Isa's that are 10ish months old and have been laying, plus my next oldest pullets which are 8-12 weeks old down to my youngest that are a week old (the babies are still separate at this point) plus 2 roosters. I have not seen insoluble grit in any produce store around here. Mine are out ranging, so I hope/think they are picking up little rocks and whatnot out in the garden. Shell grit is definitely the same as USA oyster grit. Personally I feed mine their recycled egg shells (washed/crushed) plus whatever seafood shells we consume ourselves- they love green mussel shells, oysters, clams, whatever.