Feeding oatmeal to ducks?

[Miss Lydia]

Funny, it's post 15, not 12, and I have read all 4 pages before, and the people who posted that I trust, said oi feed formulated feed. I just feed All Flock which is an 18% feed. The mergansers will get some catfish feed during breeding, but that's it. A handful of scratch, minnows, crickets, etc occasionally for environmental enrichment, but that's it. I would like to feed Mazuri....it's the best feed on the market, and the only one which will give a COMPLETE nutrient analysis (AME/KG, amino acids, taurine, etc.), but it is about 4X All-flock because I would have to have it shipped in.

Want a balanced diet.....know the nutrient requirements of ducks....know what the composition of the feed you are using is.....know how you are changing the diet when you add something.....There are plenty of computer programs for feed formulation, unfortunately they tend to be expensive.

Just a note, all the time there are posts of leg weakness.....the immediate answer always given is more niacin.....no one mentions that the diet may be in-balanced with regards to Vit E and Selenium which has been related to white muscle disease, or capture myopathy. My an unknown mechanism, the in-balance makes an animal susceptible to tissue death when the bird is stressed. Causes a spike in several enzymes signifying tissue break down, and streak of dead muscle tissue, often in the heart and legs. Yes, I have lost birds to CM, and have published a case study on it.

Clint

it was post 12.

 

[Speceider]

You mean post 12 out of the 4 pages? Not much science in it. Also, reference was free-ranging with oats.....I'd trust the birds to find a balanced diet if they have enough space. Funny, how you ask about the one post that supports your view with hear-say evidence.

Clint

 

[Miss Lydia]

You mean post 12 out of the 4 pages? Not much science in it. Also, reference was free-ranging with oats.....I'd trust the birds to find a balanced diet if they have enough space. Funny, how you ask about the one post that supports your view with hear-say evidence.

Clint

I'm sorry but I did not ask you what you thought about post 12 because it supports my view. I haven't a "view" I am trying to learn what is the best diet for my flock and was under the assumption that what I was feeding was since I see healthy birds here. I have recommended Niacin many times to people when their ducklings have leg problems mainly because I read on Metzers web site that lack of adequate niacin can cause leg problems. I've never heard of CM.

 

[Shikoba70]

Capture myopathy is also known as white muscle disease. When the muscle is used its metabolism changes from using oxygen to using stored energy in the muscle. This leads to a build up of lactic acid which goes into the bloodstream where it changes the pH of the body and affects the heart output. If the heart doesn’t pump correct oxygen to the muscle, the muscle starts to die. Over the next week or so, the product produced by the muscle’s death damages the kidney and affects other organs.

Miss Lydia you have probably never heard of capture myopathy because it normally only occurs in wild animals. In wildlife it can kill animals in either a few minutes or a few weeks. I have bottle raised a wallaby and one of the common causes for them not surviving is through CM. It is due to excessive stress. As a vet nurse of 25 years I have never seen it in anything other than wild animals, my ducks are brought up to be used to differrent situations and have certainly never been this stressed, as I am sure yours have not. It could occur after a predator attack but have not known it otherwise.

 

[Speceider]

Capture myopathy is also known as white muscle disease. When the muscle is used its metabolism changes from using oxygen to using stored energy in the muscle. This leads to a build up of lactic acid which goes into the bloodstream where it changes the pH of the body and affects the heart output. If the heart doesn’t pump correct oxygen to the muscle, the muscle starts to die. Over the next week or so, the product produced by the muscle’s death damages the kidney and affects other organs.

Miss Lydia you have probably never heard of capture myopathy because it normally only occurs in wild animals. In wildlife it can kill animals in either a few minutes or a few weeks. I have bottle raised a wallaby and one of the common causes for them not surviving is through CM. It is due to excessive stress. As a vet nurse of 25 years I have never seen it in anything other than wild animals, my ducks are brought up to be used to differrent situations and have certainly never been this stressed, as I am sure yours have not. It could occur after a predator attack but have not known it otherwise.

Most reported cases are in wildlife, but my case was captive ducks. It's not unheard of in domestic animals.

Clint

 

[Peeko]

Can you share with us what you use to make a balanced duck food? and the link won't work.

Sorry, that was the link from my email. Here is the static link for the recall.

I don't make a balanced food, I provide extra food on top of what the ducks choose for themselves. I like feeding them live fish in the pool, and so do they. At night I gather slugs, snails and sow bugs. We also raise worms in compost bins for them. We offer various leafy greens; in winter they like reddish greens but not so much in summer. They love kale. I chop up celery, cabbage, carrot, cucumber, and sometimes bell pepper flesh in the food processor and they love sucking that up in a watery soup. I also mix up some grains: red and white wheat, millet, rice, buckwheat, corn meal, barley, and whole oats. I add some granulated kelp and diatomaceous earth to the grains. The grain is offered with water sparingly in summer, a lot more in winter but where I am the winters are mild, the grass gets greener and we can grow some veggies up til December. I also have pink salt sitting out for them to nibble when the mood strikes.

I try to discourage them eating at a bowl exclusively. There are lots of native plants in the yard, grasses, dandelion and clover that they like to graze and places where bugs can be found. I love bringing in a new plant I think they will like and finding out what they do with it or turning over stones and soil and watching them try to find the bugs first. Our daddy duck likes eating flowers in spring. When the rains come I plant watercress for them but have to section it off so they don't eat it all before it gets a chance to grow. Can't forget dirt and rocks. I make sure they get enough access to those.

There are a lot of errors in this.....commercial feeds usually have corn and soy as a bas e to provide the base energy content, and the supplements are to balance the amino acis and mineral rations....last I knew, manganese and amino acids were not petroleum based non-food resources that aren't digestible. I also would like to know what feeds regularly include antibiotics....it makes feed much more expensive....non of the feeds I use list antibiotics in the ingredients....


You make you own food, good for you....hope you have done the research to provide a balanced diet. Fortunately, domestic ducks are VERY forgiving to mismanagement. Wonder how many fewer "problems", like weak legs, egg-binding, and many other ailments that are listed daily.....quite possibly from people reading posts that suggest they can feed sub-quality foods to save money.

Clint

Nice to meet you Clint Yes, I've done my research, boy have I done my research.

Let me be more clear: antibiotics are administered regularly in order to keep malnourished birds alive; birds that eat predominantly corn and soy. It is a very clever marketing scheme that created the common misconception of corn and soy being a good substitute for a natural diet for livestock. It is not healthy for birds to consume it regularly and in large amounts.

I know it's hard to believe, but yes, most supplements are synthetic, and many come from petroleum or coal tar. Check out these links to start you on your learning journey!

"However, most vitamin supplements contain petroleum derivatives and/or hydrogenated sugars. Even though they are often labeled as natural, most non-food vitamins are isolated substances and crystalline in structure.Vitamins found naturally in real food are not crystalline and never isolated."

"An example is vitamin B1. Coal tar is a widely used foundational substance for this vitamin — typically a crystalline yellow coal tar (yes, this means it’s from coal, a fossil fuel). Hydrochloric acid is often added to allow precipitation. Then fermentation, heating, cooling, and other steps are completed until a final synthetic vitamin is created. It’s then dried and tested for purity before being shipped to distributors."

"Vitamin ‘B5’ made from various things.

Synthetic amino acids

Synthetic manganese

Synthetic magnesium silicate

Vet Q & A Clip where he say's it's OK to use "vitamin petroleum supplement" on a cat. What do they teach in vet school these days? How to sell pharmaceuticals for pets.

This video is almost 50 minutes long, but a good place to start if you're interested in learning how supplements aren't turning out to be good for people either!

 

[Miss Lydia]

Sorry, that was the link from my email. Here is the static link for the recall.

I don't make a balanced food, I provide extra food on top of what the ducks choose for themselves. I like feeding them live fish in the pool, and so do they. At night I gather slugs, snails and sow bugs. We also raise worms in compost bins for them. We offer various leafy greens; in winter they like reddish greens but not so much in summer. They love kale. I chop up celery, cabbage, carrot, cucumber, and sometimes bell pepper flesh in the food processor and they love sucking that up in a watery soup. I also mix up some grains: red and white wheat, millet, rice, buckwheat, corn meal, barley, and whole oats. I add some granulated kelp and diatomaceous earth to the grains. The grain is offered with water sparingly in summer, a lot more in winter but where I am the winters are mild, the grass gets greener and we can grow some veggies up til December. I also have pink salt sitting out for them to nibble when the mood strikes.

I try to discourage them eating at a bowl exclusively. There are lots of native plants in the yard, grasses, dandelion and clover that they like to graze and places where bugs can be found. I love bringing in a new plant I think they will like and finding out what they do with it or turning over stones and soil and watching them try to find the bugs first. Our daddy duck likes eating flowers in spring. When the rains come I plant watercress for them but have to section it off so they don't eat it all before it gets a chance to grow. Can't forget dirt and rocks. I make sure they get enough access to those.
Nice to meet you Clint Yes, I've done my research, boy have I done my research.

Let me be more clear: antibiotics are administered regularly in order to keep malnourished birds alive; birds that eat predominantly corn and soy. It is a very clever marketing scheme that created the common misconception of corn and soy being a good substitute for a natural diet for livestock. It is not healthy for birds to consume it regularly and in large amounts.

I know it's hard to believe, but yes, most supplements are synthetic, and many come from petroleum or coal tar. Check out these links to start you on your learning journey!

"However, most vitamin supplements contain petroleum derivatives and/or hydrogenated sugars. Even though they are often labeled as natural, most non-food vitamins are isolated substances and crystalline in structure.Vitamins found naturally in real food are not crystalline and never isolated."

"An example is vitamin B1. Coal tar is a widely used foundational substance for this vitamin — typically a crystalline yellow coal tar (yes, this means it’s from coal, a fossil fuel). Hydrochloric acid is often added to allow precipitation. Then fermentation, heating, cooling, and other steps are completed until a final synthetic vitamin is created. It’s then dried and tested for purity before being shipped to distributors."

"Vitamin ‘B5’ made from various things.

Synthetic amino acids

Synthetic manganese

Synthetic magnesium silicate

Vet Q & A Clip where he say's it's OK to use "vitamin petroleum supplement" on a cat. What do they teach in vet school these days? How to sell pharmaceuticals for pets.

This video is almost 50 minutes long, but a good place to start if you're interested in learning how supplements aren't turning out to be good for people either!

Thank you for all the info, my flock is on about 1/2 acre and it has native wild flowers which I see them munching on my biggest problem with my flock is I can't grow grasses because I haven't any way to keep them off of it till it can get established, all open fencing with trees shrubs and flowers on the side of a mountain. My dh suggests opening the gates and letting them out side of fenced area but it worries me to do this since they will be vunerable to preds. but it's about the only way we'll be able to get grasses growing. My chickens keep everything turned over. I do like all your ideas though and would love to find a source for the wheat and other grains you mentioned but nothing around here, and too expensive to have shipped. I know it sounded like I'm trying to feed my flock as cheaply as I can but I am trying to feed them as healthy as I can with out going bankrupt. This will probably cause a stir too but I use organic granulated garlic, dried oregano, and brewers yeast plus red clay earth and de in my feed mix. Okay who wants to get in on this one?

I have found that since I started with the garlic I haven't had mites this year. Hopefully that is why. They do have access to all the bugs they can eat.

 

[Miss Lydia]

Capture myopathy is also known as white muscle disease. When the muscle is used its metabolism changes from using oxygen to using stored energy in the muscle. This leads to a build up of lactic acid which goes into the bloodstream where it changes the pH of the body and affects the heart output. If the heart doesn’t pump correct oxygen to the muscle, the muscle starts to die. Over the next week or so, the product produced by the muscle’s death damages the kidney and affects other organs.

Miss Lydia you have probably never heard of capture myopathy because it normally only occurs in wild animals. In wildlife it can kill animals in either a few minutes or a few weeks. I have bottle raised a wallaby and one of the common causes for them not surviving is through CM. It is due to excessive stress. As a vet nurse of 25 years I have never seen it in anything other than wild animals, my ducks are brought up to be used to differrent situations and have certainly never been this stressed, as I am sure yours have not. It could occur after a predator attack but have not known it otherwise.

Thank you for explaining this Shikoba70.

 

[Peeko]

Thank you for all the info, my flock is on about 1/2 acre and it has native wild flowers which I see them munching on my biggest problem with my flock is I can't grow grasses because I haven't any way to keep them off of it till it can get established, all open fencing with trees shrubs and flowers on the side of a mountain. My dh suggests opening the gates and letting them out side of fenced area but it worries me to do this since they will be vunerable to preds. but it's about the only way we'll be able to get grasses growing. My chickens keep everything turned over. I do like all your ideas though and would love to find a source for the wheat and other grains you mentioned but nothing around here, and too expensive to have shipped. I know it sounded like I'm trying to feed my flock as cheaply as I can but I am trying to feed them as healthy as I can with out going bankrupt. This will probably cause a stir too but I use organic granulated garlic, dried oregano, and brewers yeast plus red clay earth and de in my feed mix. Okay who wants to get in on this one?

I have found that since I started with the garlic I haven't had mites this year. Hopefully that is why. They do have access to all the bugs they can eat.

The only online place I get stuff from is TruHarvest. Some stuff is a good deal there, some isn't. I'm lucky to have a food co-op and other stores around that will order a 25 lb bag of various wheat, millet and others; so I get grains from them along with occasional free old greens they set out behind the store for bird-owners to take. Maybe there are some other bird owners in your area that would want to go in on the shipping with you? You could test the waters with a shout-out on Craigslist- see who bites. I kick myself on how much money I spend on our birds, but they are our dear pets and I love seeing them happy and comfortable.

Our ducks like digging up the tiny bulbs of wild garlic, which at first I was like "oh no! don't eat that!" But they only eat one or toy with it in their mouth for a bit then move on; never had any mites or signs of toxic exposure. Anecdotal at best, but I vote for garlic, in moderation.

I agree, predation is a real and present danger! On the side of a mountain sounds like it's uphill so this might not work, but have you seen mobile coops and pens? They seem easy enough for a DIY project. I wish we had built our pen on wheels. It's one of the upgrades the next one will certainly have.

 

[Peeko]

I just saw this for keeping the grass safe- genius!