FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[KrazyChromatics]

I wouldn't risk it and have to possibly dump out all that feed into another place while replaced plastic liners. Too fussy and fraught with difficulty.

yeah ive still got about 100lbs of feed left so i should get something next week anyway or ill never have a proper ferment i should have like 2 bins going... but im amazed as to how much feed i have left... id be almost out and its only a few days in... i was feeding out 75lb a week maybe a bit more

 

[22qZoo]

Bee- per your suggestion I did google FF and found lots of info on how it works. Thanks for the reminder to do the google ; ). One thing I didn't find or maybe just didn't see was the ratio, is it 50/50 crumbles and scratch or a 1/3 scratch 2/3 crumble mix what do you use?

 

[barkinghills]

How do you tell the difference between whole grains that are fermenting properly and those that are spoiled? My whole grain fermenting water ends up very cloudy by the third day and I am worried about it being spoiled. How can I tell?

 

[Beekissed]

I don't know what you mean by spoiled? If they are in the mix, they are being converted~fermented~by the metabolic processes of the beneficial bacteria found there. The cloudiness of the fluid is more from the flour dust off of grains than anything else and also the starches/sugars being changed in the fermentation process, but is still good.

To be fair, fermentation is a type of rotting, or spoiling, of the food..just a controlled spoiling that doesn't involve harmful pathogens as the beneficial pathogens are being fed their favorite foods and are being colonized in greater numbers. If one were to leave that bucket alone to fend for itself..eventually the mix would grow dryer, the available nutrients that the LAB feed off of would be used up, all the alcohol sugars would be consumed by the vinegar bacilli, and they would all die...leaving what remains to the more harmful bacteria/molds to grow stronger and take over and the feed would truly be spoiled then.

As long as the beneficial bacteria are being fed and cared for, their sheer numbers and the chemicals released by their metabolism prohibit the growth and overgrowth of harmful bacteria/molds.

To feed and care for them is easy...add fresh feed, keep them moist.

 

[keeperofthegame]

Bee,

You seem to know so much about ff. I am a newbie at it. I mixed my crumbles with some oats and corn and boss and used 2 TBS raw acv with the mother as a starter. I covered it all with water and made sure it stayed covered with water. I covered the bucket with a towel. I waited three days then fed it to the girls. They went nuts! They loved it so much. I was happy. Same thing second and third day. They were eating alot of it. About the fourth day they finally started slowing down on how much of it they were eating. The fifth day even less. The sixth about the same. Now...on the seventh through tenth day (that is today) they would not eat it at all. I am puzzled by this. Also one of my girls is vomiting profusely. I have isolated her. For the past four days I have been giving them the dry crumbles again since they refuse to eat the ff. Could there be something wrong with the ff? It smells fine to me and when I stir it, it bubbles. Hoping you might be able to help me out here. Thanks in advance for your attention to this post. I am new here to this post and having only been raising chickens for a year now. I have a small flock of six birds that I love dearly and hate to see one of them ill. I am giving my Matilda only water right now with raw avc mixed in it.

 

[Beekissed]

Everyone seems to report birds eating quite a bit of the FF at first and gobbling it up and then, as time goes along, they don't seem to need as much and level off at a decent intake. I've never heard anyone reporting that the birds wouldn't touch it at all but I'm thinking you may be feeding as much FF as you fed dry and there might be the problem about consumption. It may seem like they are not consuming it at all but I'm thinking they are, but not as much as previously and not as much as when you fed dry, so it seems like they are not eating it at all.

I'd cut back their feed ration until they clean their plates. The vomiting may be from a sour or impacted crop from too much consumption at first? Not sure...the FF should actually work to prevent issues like sour crop, so I'm not sure what to tell you there....not sure your results are typical. I'd hang the one vomiting upside down and milk her crop a little to see if you can get her to regurgitate that stored feed that is preventing digestion. Then I'd not feed it free choice but in meals...if they free range all day, feeding in the evening seems best. If they are cooped, feeding just enough that they can clean it up before roosting time seems to be the best.

Please let us know how it all turned out? Someone else on another forum~not feeding FF, but a similar experience~was telling about her birds going off their feed, vomiting brown liquid and seeming to really suffer in the heat...she found out they had sort of foundered themselves on feed. When she removed feed and didn't let them eat free choice, they straightened right up and all was well.

 

[barkinghills]

I don't know what you mean by spoiled? If they are in the mix, they are being converted~fermented~by the metabolic processes of the beneficial bacteria found there. The cloudiness of the fluid is more from the flour dust off of grains than anything else and also the starches/sugars being changed in the fermentation process, but is still good.

To be fair, fermentation is a type of rotting, or spoiling, of the food..just a controlled spoiling that doesn't involve harmful pathogens as the beneficial pathogens are being fed their favorite foods and are being colonized in greater numbers. If one were to leave that bucket alone to fend for itself..eventually the mix would grow dryer, the available nutrients that the LAB feed off of would be used up, all the alcohol sugars would be consumed by the vinegar bacilli, and they would all die...leaving what remains to the more harmful bacteria/molds to grow stronger and take over and the feed would truly be spoiled then.

As long as the beneficial bacteria are being fed and cared for, their sheer numbers and the chemicals released by their metabolism prohibit the growth and overgrowth of harmful bacteria/molds.

To feed and care for them is easy...add fresh feed, keep them moist.

I have seen people post that the FF can grow botulism if things go wrong. The reason I asked is because the smell changes into a stronger, rather sour smell on around the third day. I was originally trying to keep the fermented grains going by feeding about 1/2 and adding some new grain and water each day. Now I am just keeping each small batch for about 3 days because it smells so sour by the third day. Maybe I am overly concerned with the potential for souring/botulism? Any advice appreciated!

 

[Beekissed]

I have seen people post that the FF can grow botulism if things go wrong. The reason I asked is because the smell changes into a stronger, rather sour smell on around the third day. I was originally trying to keep the fermented grains going by feeding about 1/2 and adding some new grain and water each day. Now I am just keeping each small batch for about 3 days because it smells so sour by the third day. Maybe I am overly concerned with the potential for souring/botulism? Any advice appreciated!

Yep...botulism doesn't have a smell, nor does it generate one. People posting that it can grow botulism are merely speculating and one would have to leave it unattended and closed up for quite a long time before it would grow anything of that nature.

The smell changes as the fermentation deepens and the number of good bacteria grow and feed on the mix. It's natural for it to smell like that and it doesn't indicate spoilage,merely more fermentation going on.

But..if the method of feeding is causing that much fear and doubt in your mind, it's probably best if you don't continue with it...no one needs that level of stress over chickens. Should be a fun thing to do, keeping chickens, and shouldn't carry with it any stress, fear or too much work.

 

[barkinghills]

Yep...botulism doesn't have a smell, nor does it generate one. People posting that it can grow botulism are merely speculating and one would have to leave it unattended and closed up for quite a long time before it would grow anything of that nature.

The smell changes as the fermentation deepens and the number of good bacteria grow and feed on the mix. It's natural for it to smell like that and it doesn't indicate spoilage,merely more fermentation going on.

But..if the method of feeding is causing that much fear and doubt in your mind, it's probably best if you don't continue with it...no one needs that level of stress over chickens. Should be a fun thing to do, keeping chickens, and shouldn't carry with it any stress, fear or too much work.

Thanks for the info, Beekissed.

However, I think you completely misjudged my post as far as having "that level of stress over chickens." The FF is not causing me any fear or doubt. My chickens are doing great with what I'm doing and I am not anxious about it. I was simply trying to learn more as I like to be well-informed about something I'm doing.

Thanks for your concern about my mental state. But please keep in mind, newbies and relative newcomers to the forum should feel free to ask informational questions without being patronized.

 

[Beekissed]

You misjudged the tone of the post as well... I apologize for any misunderstandings. I'm also sorry if the free advice given was not up to your standards.