FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[Scott H]

Sorry....doesn't seem natural to me. Birds aren't like wolves where they take on a giant meal and sleep it off the rest of the day.They are set up to forage all day long....except there is no forage right now....

 

[niqueie]

Mine aren't sleeping it off. They are actively scratching and exploring during the day. All of us here agree that forage is best, but obviously that doesn't cut it for the only source of nutrition. These are domesticated animals so they need care. It does a great job of giving what they need and not wasting. It is a better more nutritious feed also. Many of us feed twice, but some feed once a day. The birds do thrive and that is our own proof.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

~~ Mine will eat it...but they are nibblers...when free ranging, they got used to coming by after searching for forage and eating some chicken food and then right back to foraging. With snow on the ground they have transferred that behavior to coming out of the coop to get water and feed before going back in the coop to scratch around....FF is frozen when they come back out.
If you put straw down on the snow, they'll stay outside longer.
They would completely fill the bowl with wood shavings.....
And it it's the same temp inside...open air coop.

As with any feeder, it needs to be elevated to about the height of the chickens' backs. Same with water.

Same here, either identical temps or just a couple degree difference.

But they are more likely to stay in the coop to eat on a cold day and you can set the feeder up on legs/pedestal/block. That's how most are doing with feeders when using deep litter. My current feeder is up on 2x6 legs.

The FF takes some adaptation to use but once you hit the right method it's smooth sailin' from there.

Today I plan on hanging sections of gutter on the wall inside the coops.

Would you guys suggest completely taking away the dry feed once the birds transition to the ff? My chickens have lights.that turn on in the am beforr the sun and then I go out after sunrise so they have a little while in the coop and thats when they eat a lot of their dry feed and I don't want to deprive them of food before I can get out there. Im still trying to figure out my routine so my birds can benefit from their ff

Probably not a bad idea but with the temps hovering around zero F since I started FF I can't do it. I'd have to be carrying small portions out there all day.
I still have bulk dry feeders in each coop but once I have the FF feeders set up and the daytime temps stay above freezing, I'll go that way.

Sorry....doesn't seem natural to me. Birds aren't like wolves where they take on a giant meal and sleep it off the rest of the day.They are set up to forage all day long....except there is no forage right now....

I agree. When the crop is empty, they're hungry. That translates to first thing in the morning and periodically throughout the day. Their digestive tract is set up for a prey animal. They can gorge, hide/dust bathe, gorge/forage, hide, gorge, off to roost.

 

[chickengirl1193]

My main reason for switching to the ff was to save money on the feed bill but a few mistakes caused a lot of waste because food was freezing or getting filled with shavings so im hoping now that ive ironed out some kinks there wont be any more waste. With the dry feed they billed out so much onto the ground yhat their shavings were mostly feed and I knew because every time I cleaned the coop thr goats would eat all the feed out of the shavings...

 

[Tikkijane]

I, personally, see no downside. Mine are cooped at night and free range the rest of the time because I have no run.

I have never had picky chickens. And I'm still glad they aren't bigger because I'd be on the menu if I fell........

 

[Tikkijane]

And P.S.- because I'm in the South, I have plenty of forage right now. Even if it's just digging through horse poop, they've got tons to do (and eat, since the voles are out en masse this year).

 

[ChickenCanoe]

When my feeder was close to the ground it would fill up with shavings, but now that it is elevated more it never has more than a couple of prices of shavings. Not sure if your feeder is close to the ground.
I think there is definitely a learning curve for the birds when switching major types of feed. I recently added some sprouted grain and they didn't want anything to do with it the first day. They didn't touch it. The second day I chopped it up finer and added it to their regular FF. They ate around it but tried it and a few of them finished it off. They haven't taken to it completely but it's gone by morning. It is like children with trying new foods. Most fight new changes, but most will come around if they are hungry. They will probably come to love it eventually too. I hope you keep with the fermented feed. I did find that my birds like it dryer. If you can use a mesh sieve it help to drain the feed quite a bit. I've heard it help with it not freezing as quickly. One other thought was if the FF was at room temperate when served it would feel warm to them and they might like it better that way too. Just random thoughts.

I feed the sprouted seeds/grains as a scratch or in a separate container.

 

[Beekissed]

Sorry....doesn't seem natural to me. Birds aren't like wolves where they take on a giant meal and sleep it off the rest of the day.They are set up to forage all day long....except there is no forage right now....

In the winter all bets are off for birds to "forage" all the time, even in the wild. They will often find a food source, gorge on it and then rest to conserve calories and keep warm. Most animals are not in full graze mode in the winter months but will eat as much as they can at one place then bed down and stay warm, conserve the energy they just consumed. Birds forage all during the warm months because it's readily available and they don't have to conserve body heat, so they can expend all the motion they want to find food.

The crop of the bird stores the one meal for all day and it is sampled from in the digestive system for that whole day. I've killed birds whose last meal was 17 hours earlier and found them to have a full crop. In the winter time their metabolism slows way down to accommodate this kind of feeding. Even the wolves are the same...they forage in the warmer months on small game, roots, grubs, even fruit...but in the winter they will hunt bigger game and gorge upon it so they can lay up and conserve their energy for heat.

What's not natural in the winter time is to have readily available feed sources all throughout the day like they have in the warmer months. That's why I feed in the morning in the winter and in the evening in the other months. They get that one meal that they can use the energy from all day long and into the next day. Many feed before they go to the roost in the winter thinking that this will keep them warmer, but that's not when they need it the most...on the roost they have body heat and closeness to one another to keep them warm, they are still and conserving energy to keep warm. In the day time they are moving about and need that energy much more to stay warm, so a morning meal is ideal for winter months and the FF in the crop storage will continue to ferment and generate heat, which is also a great little way to keep them warm in the day.

I try to treat my flock as much as I can as they would naturally be in the wild, which is one reason I cut protein nutrition a little in the winter months when others are increasing it...it's not natural for birds to have rich nutrition throughout the winter months and their diet will be more fiber and carbs than it will be proteins. It keeps my birds healthy for many long years and not only healthy, but still laying.

 

[Katt66]

In the winter all bets are off for birds to "forage" all the time, even in the wild. They will often find a food source, gorge on it and then rest to conserve calories and keep warm. Most animals are not in full graze mode in the winter months but will eat as much as they can at one place then bed down and stay warm, conserve the energy they just consumed. Birds forage all during the warm months because it's readily available and they don't have to conserve body heat, so they can expend all the motion they want to find food.

The crop of the bird stores the one meal for all day and it is sampled from in the digestive system for that whole day. I've killed birds whose last meal was 17 hours earlier and found them to have a full crop. In the winter time their metabolism slows way down to accommodate this kind of feeding. Even the wolves are the same...they forage in the warmer months on small game, roots, grubs, even fruit...but in the winter they will hunt bigger game and gorge upon it so they can lay up and conserve their energy for heat.

What's not natural in the winter time is to have readily available feed sources all throughout the day like they have in the warmer months. That's why I feed in the morning in the winter and in the evening in the other months. They get that one meal that they can use the energy from all day long and into the next day. Many feed before they go to the roost in the winter thinking that this will keep them warmer, but that's not when they need it the most...on the roost they have body heat and closeness to one another to keep them warm, they are still and conserving energy to keep warm. In the day time they are moving about and need that energy much more to stay warm, so a morning meal is ideal for winter months and the FF in the crop storage will continue to ferment and generate heat, which is also a great little way to keep them warm in the day.

I try to treat my flock as much as I can as they would naturally be in the wild, which is one reason I cut protein nutrition a little in the winter months when others are increasing it...it's not natural for birds to have rich nutrition throughout the winter months and their diet will be more fiber and carbs than it will be proteins. It keeps my birds healthy for many long years and not only healthy, but still laying.

Very well said.

My question also is, is natural always better?
Consider both sides. Natural for a chicken would be pretty much like a wild North American Turkey. Foraging and scrimping and scratching around all day long and roosting in the trees at night. Unless they happen to come upon a really good food source then it's gobble up as much as they can and hope it's enough to sustain them till the next meal is found. I can guarantee you wild North American turkeys do not in any way live as productive or long a life as farm raised turkeys. I've never encountered a Jungle Fowl in the wild as we don't live anywhere near their natural habitat but I'd think they'd be pretty much the same. But, consider also, the majority of us are not keeping our chickens in a climate anywhere near their "natural" ancestral climate. I'd imagine the wild Jungle Fowl actually have it a bit easier than North American turkeys because of the warmer overall climate. Throw chickens who are descendant from these birds out into a "natural" environment anywhere but in the tropics, they won't fare as well as their "unnaturally" kept friends in your neighbor's back yard.

So as far as that goes, feeding them one lump feeding in the morning may or may not be "natural". But I have to flat out question if "natural" IS indeed always better.

I adore my birds and see them entirely as "pets with benefits" I will never do anything that is not in their best interest as far as living happy healthy lives above and beyond meat or egg production. I prefer to make sure my birds have a good balanced nutritious meal on my own time. What they do with the rest of their day is all on them. As far as foraging, it's skimpy in the winter. Though they do enjoy digging in the run and I'm sure they do find the occasional little treat in there. And they've got the compost pile in the yard to play in as well. They don't seem to be minding any of what I'm doing behaviorally. Nobody's picking feathers or stressing in any way. All are happy with clear bright eyes, clean glossy feathers and lay eggs regularly with full heavy shells free of pits or bumps or any kind. I handle each of them on a daily basis and especially obsess over weight and crops. Crops are always full and breast are filled out but not fat. One of them becoming eggbound is a nightmare of mine. I've been told that egg laying breeds won't overeat. But I still prefer to control their intake like I do my dogs and cats. Because becoming overweight is a sure way to becoming eggbound and dying. And that's not an option around here. As I said earlier, they are pets first and producers second. And as with my dogs and cats, I prefer thin over fat. Fat is definitely much more detrimental to overall health. And fat is less likely to happen if they don't have a feeder full of crumbles hanging there all day long for them to nibble at out of boredom.

 

[Beekissed]

Very well said.


So as far as that goes, feeding them one lump feeding in the morning may or may not be "natural". But I have to flat out question if "natural" IS indeed always better.

I adore my birds and see them entirely as "pets with benefits" I will never do anything that is not in their best interest as far as living happy healthy lives above and beyond meat or egg production. I prefer to make sure my birds have a good balanced nutritious meal on my own time. What they do with the rest of their day is all on them. As far as foraging, it's skimpy in the winter. Though they do enjoy digging in the run and I'm sure they do find the occasional little treat in there. And they've got the compost pile in the yard to play in as well. They don't seem to be minding any of what I'm doing behaviorally. Nobody's picking feathers or stressing in any way. All are happy with clear bright eyes, clean glossy feathers and lay eggs regularly with full heavy shells free of pits or bumps or any kind. I handle each of them on a daily basis and especially obsess over weight and crops. Crops are always full and breast are filled out but not fat. One of them becoming eggbound is a nightmare of mine. I've been told that egg laying breeds won't overeat. But I still prefer to control their intake like I do my dogs and cats. Because becoming overweight is a sure way to becoming eggbound and dying. And that's not an option around here. As I said earlier, they are pets first and producers second. And as with my dogs and cats, I prefer thin over fat. Fat is definitely much more detrimental to overall health. And fat is less likely to happen if they don't have a feeder full of crumbles hanging there all day long for them to nibble at out of boredom.

That's for each person to decide for him or herself on flock tending. If your methods have stood the test of time and suit you, produce healthy flocks and good production and you don't have to worry about illness in your paradigm, then whatever you are doing is obviously the "best" for you and your chickens.

The threads and posts here are offered up for consideration and for learning if one would want to learn. They are in no way a "one way to do this" type of thing and they can be taken as good or left as bad as each person sees fit.

I,personally, don't feel that chickens descended from wild jungle fowl but were specifically designed to work in conjunction with humans to produce food, as were some other types of fowl. That's why chickens lay all year round~give or take~and wild turkeys lay a clutch or two in the spring. They were designed as food producing partners for humans and as such have a distinct and very different life than wild fowl, but still close enough that their digestion systems are very similar as are the way they utilize energy throughout the seasons. Available food sources are only augmented by their close association with humans in a domestic capacity and in a real life situation, our food varies in nutrition by seasons also...humans did not always have the world trade, fruits and veggies out of season, etc. that they now have and food was very seasonal, and as such, so were the feed supply of our domestic animals.

I like the way that God designed my chickens and I don't mess with it too much and just try to act like a good steward. It's not for everyone...but it is for me. It's stood the test of a long time, it works for all the breeds I favor, and it suits my life while keeping all my chickens healthy and producing well for many years. Is natural always best? For me it is.

You'll have to decide that for yourself.