FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[Beekissed]

This may not be the time nor the place for this but since we are discussing more "natural" ways to care for our chickens maybe someone wouldn't mind helping me. I'm wanting to worm my chickens. In the past I've put Wazine in their water, but I REALLY don't like worming them that way. Anyone have a suggestion on how to worm with out using chemicals?

First, why are you wanting to worm your chickens? Are you having a particular problem? If not....

How about just not deworming at all until you feel your flock may need assistance with the available worm load? I've never officially dewormed a flock because I've never seen evidence of worms in the stool and generally go by the flock's general health and body condition. Every spring and fall I'll feed them something like raw garlic, fermented pumpkins, fermented ginger root, etc. You can even place a little soap in their drinking water and get the same thing...a general and gentle purge for worms but not with the goal of completely killing off all worms in the system.

Prevention is a better method. Free ranging, culling each year for nonlaying, age and poor appearance, clean and fresh soils, sunshine, fresh air and water and plenty of exercise, low stocking rates. Fermented feeds can help but are not a cure all for worms.

 

[SavageDestiny]

The water over the feed won't "keep bacteria out of the feed", so you can dispense with all those ideas in the future. Same with keeping the lid on. Whoever is spreading that hooha is a little loopy...water is not a bacteriostatic agent nor is it a bactericide. Nothing wrong with placing water over the feed at first to allow for absorption into the kernels and ground feed, but to maintain water over the level of feed to "keep out germs" or to do "lactobactic fermentation" is not based on facts and you can put those worries out of your mind. You will get lacto fermentation anyway, no matter if you cover it with water, use a lacto starter or not, etc. You will not grow bad bacteria if you don't cover the feed with water at all times. Trust me.

I'm just going by what I've read. The article on the Natural Chicken Keeping website is what I used as a guide to start my FF, and it says:

"2. Place a suitable amount of dry feed in your container and completely cover with water. As lacto-fermenting is an anaerobic process, be sure to add enough water to keep about 1/2" - 1" of water standing above the feed level. This encourages the Lactic Acid Bacteria to proliferate while deterring the growth of undesirable molds/yeasts/fungi which require oxygen to proliferate."

I don't mind the extra water and it doesn't seem to be hurting anything.

 

[Beekissed]

I'm just going by what I've read. The article on the Natural Chicken Keeping website is what I used as a guide to start my FF, and it says:

"2. Place a suitable amount of dry feed in your container and completely cover with water. As lacto-fermenting is an anaerobic process, be sure to add enough water to keep about 1/2" - 1" of water standing above the feed level. This encourages the Lactic Acid Bacteria to proliferate while deterring the growth of undesirable molds/yeasts/fungi which require oxygen to proliferate."

I don't mind the extra water and it doesn't seem to be hurting anything.

Yep...that's the very site where most folks go off the common sense pathway. Try not to access that site for much if you can help it...she got the idea for fermenting on these two largest threads and then just added her own dialogue to it, but it has no basis in fact or is even advisable. The last person that listened to that on here had a big, glass jar explode all over their entryway because of that sage advice.

You can read on this thread and find links and information on just what constitutes LAB fermentation and none of it is concurrent with that information you have quoted. I know it's the site that first comes up when one does a Google on FF but it's not reliable or accurate in its information.

No, the extra water doesn't hurt anything...but you will be adding an extra step to your feeding by straining every time that you wouldn't need to do, then the soupy feed has been causing some to report runny stools, and the wetter the feed fed in the winter months, the more easily and quickly it freezes. It may not bother you now, but you'll likely be wanting a drier mix later on.

 

[luvblues7]

First, why are you wanting to worm your chickens? Are you having a particular problem? If not....

How about just not deworming at all until you feel your flock may need assistance with the available worm load? I've never officially dewormed a flock because I've never seen evidence of worms in the stool and generally go by the flock's general health and body condition. Every spring and fall I'll feed them something like raw garlic, fermented pumpkins, fermented ginger root, etc. You can even place a little soap in their drinking water and get the same thing...a general and gentle purge for worms but not with the goal of completely killing off all worms in the system.

Prevention is a better method. Free ranging, culling each year for nonlaying, age and poor appearance, clean and fresh soils, sunshine, fresh air and water and plenty of exercise, low stocking rates. Fermented feeds can help but are not a cure all for worms.

I worked for a vet for awhile and he always suggested deworming all animals at least once a year. So thus I have always tried to deworm everything at least once a year. But I don't ever remember seeing anyone bring a chicken to our clinic either so......

I love free ranging my chickens also, and do most of the time during the summer months when it is light before I leave, but in the winter I have to leave for work before daylight and I'm scared to turn them loose. Last week I took a chance and let them out just before I left and came home to two dead chickens. Since then we have trapped 6 raccoons out of the barn. Darn pest !!!!! So mine are back to free ranging for only a few hours in the evening again, but they do have a large open pen with top wire covering it so there should be plenty of sunshine and fresh air.

Thanks for the advice, Bee. After reading your posts I always set back and reevaluate my procedures and revamp them accordingly. Thanks for always taking the time to gracefully respond to all of our questions. Your true inward nature shows through your responses.

Carolyn

 

[Beekissed]

I worked for a vet for awhile and he always suggested deworming all animals at least once a year. So thus I have always tried to deworm everything at least once a year. But I don't ever remember seeing anyone bring a chicken to our clinic either so......

I love free ranging my chickens also, and do most of the time during the summer months when it is light before I leave, but in the winter I have to leave for work before daylight and I'm scared to turn them loose. Last week I took a chance and let them out just before I left and came home to two dead chickens. Since then we have trapped 6 raccoons out of the barn. Darn pest !!!!! So mine are back to free ranging for only a few hours in the evening again, but they do have a large open pen with top wire covering it so there should be plenty of sunshine and fresh air.

Thanks for the advice, Bee. After reading your posts I always set back and reevaluate my procedures and revamp them accordingly. Thanks for always taking the time to gracefully respond to all of our questions. Your true inward nature shows through your responses.

Carolyn

You are very kind to say so, Carolyn.

It does my heart good to know that someone is helped by the things I say here.

A yearly purge isn't a bad thing and I do it myself in one way or another..and I also do it for my flock.

We have worm loads too, so we know chickens have them. I did find worms in a chicken I had gotten back from a friend that had used very poor management for a year. I had culled her for nonlaying and because she had a wry tail but for the first time ever, found tape worms in one of my bird's intestines. I treated the rest of the flock with some garlic and ginger root and didn't worry anymore about it. When I culled some of those birds months later, all intestines were clean as a whistle.

Even the bird with tape worms was fat as a hog and very healthy looking in her feathering and conditioning, so she was existing just fine on her present worm loads. But...they say that only 5% of any flock/herd carries 90% of the total worm load for the herd/flock, so culling for birds that are not laying, do not maintain good feathering and conditioning, etc. seems to eliminate that 5% of animals that would be your worm vectors.

 

[LindaB220]

I worked for a vet for awhile and he always suggested deworming all animals at least once a year. So thus I have always tried to deworm everything at least once a year. But I don't ever remember seeing anyone bring a chicken to our clinic either so......

I love free ranging my chickens also, and do most of the time during the summer months when it is light before I leave, but in the winter I have to leave for work before daylight and I'm scared to turn them loose. Last week I took a chance and let them out just before I left and came home to two dead chickens. Since then we have trapped 6 raccoons out of the barn. Darn pest !!!!! So mine are back to free ranging for only a few hours in the evening again, but they do have a large open pen with top wire covering it so there should be plenty of sunshine and fresh air.

Thanks for the advice, Bee. After reading your posts I always set back and reevaluate my procedures and revamp them accordingly. Thanks for always taking the time to gracefully respond to all of our questions. Your true inward nature shows through your responses.

Carolyn

Hey Carolyn, Welcome to BYC. You have come to the right place for info. Beekissed is the BEST mentor ever. I've been to a lot of threads on here and this one appeals to me by her honest, low key info with no pretensions (like some). Also, search the social forum for The Front Porch Swing. We can relax and let our hair down and enjoy each other. Some of my best friends are here and I'll never meet them.

 

[luvblues7]

Hey Carolyn, Welcome to BYC. You have come to the right place for info. Beekissed is the BEST mentor ever. I've been to a lot of threads on here and this one appeals to me by her honest, low key info with no pretensions (like some). Also, search the social forum for The Front Porch Swing. We can relax and let our hair down and enjoy each other. Some of my best friends are here and I'll never meet them.

Thanks, I will have to go to that forum and read it. The thing I like about this thread is I'm not "scared" to ask any question here. I asked a question on another thread one time a couple years ago and was told that I was "hi jacking" the thread and should start my own thread. After that I have been hesitant to post anything to any thread so I just read without commenting. But here I feel welcome and among friends and the willingness to share your knowledge is unbelievable.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I called the poultry expert at the local extension service to discuss worming and was basically told "gah! No!" It sets off a whole cycle of never ending needs. Better to do as BK says, cuz that's what he recommended. IF there is evidence of a big problem you can have a test run and make a targeted plan based on the findings. But it is probably worth calling your extension service for your local needs.

 

[Beekissed]

Thanks, I will have to go to that forum and read it. The thing I like about this thread is I'm not "scared" to ask any question here. I asked a question on another thread one time a couple years ago and was told that I was "hi jacking" the thread and should start my own thread. After that I have been hesitant to post anything to any thread so I just read without commenting. But here I feel welcome and among friends and the willingness to share your knowledge is unbelievable.

We love hijacks here.

When have you ever had a conversation that stayed on topic...forever? How very boring! There is only so much you can say about putting feed and water in a bucket and letting it ferment, so we talk about a little of everything on these threads. That's what makes life so very pleasant~variety!

And we love pics! If you have before and after pics it almost sends us into a frenzy...we love those! Or chick pics. Or pretty chicken pics. Or even pics of your coop. We aren't picky about the pics...it makes for a better thread.

And you are among friends!

A big ol' fat family of chicken nuts and friends gathering to exchange ideas and learn, that's what we are!

 

[Beekissed]

I called the poultry expert at the local extension service to discuss worming and was basically told "gah! No!" It sets off a whole cycle of never ending needs. Better to do as BK says, cuz that's what he recommended. IF there is evidence of a big problem you can have a test run and make a targeted plan based on the findings. But it is probably worth calling your extension service for your local needs.

Smart man! All scheduled chemical worming does is create a stronger, tougher worm family that can no longer be killed through normal means. That's why I only worm the dog once a year...if he looks like he needs it. If not, I don't. Same with the cat. Never gave my sheep any kind of harsh wormer....garlic, raw UPACV, raw honey in a bolus. Sometimes some Basic H (all natural soap) in the bolus.