FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[kile529]

I too love how bee shares her wisdom. I talk about what Bee says to do, with my husband whenever things about the chickens come up. I think to myself sometimes "bee would like this" or "Bee would not approve probably".

My husband told me after he processed our rooster, that I could tell Bee that we put on our big girl panties and processed our own chicken. He's funny!

Anyway thank you for your willingness to share your knowledge and insight. I love how you are honest about your feelings of God. He is our mighty savior and I like how you speak of him. I need to wear my testimony on the outside more often and you have shown a great example of that also. Thank You!!!

I had no idea that I was surrounded by so many brothers & sisters on this forum. Definitely was drawn to Bee's advice as I could tell she was a fellow believer....but I love seeing all the other posts about how others on here are Christ followers as well! Makes my heart happy. Every post makes me think "Praise the Lord". Ahhhh....I love it here.

As a side note, I had 3 chicks hatch this past Sunday and started giving them FF on Monday. So glad I kept it simple as it's been really easy. They are just getting the hang of eating and clean the dish completely. lol Not the best photo of them, but it's what I have at the moment.

 

[beverly evans]

Quote:
Thanks for sharing, both your fotos and your Christianity! Babies are wonderful

 

[Beekissed]

Bee, You are way too modest. All those hours of research that I don't ( we don't) have to do is so appreciated. I am a slow reader to boot, so I cherish you and all the time you have saved me. Just wish you were closer. We'd be best buds! And yes, I thank the Lord for you!
Back to current subjects: worming. I put DE in the chicken feed once in a while. That is supposed to kill worms or prevent their infestation. Is this true? Does it work as an alternative to Wazine (sp?). This for the person who was asking. : )

I thank the Lord for all of you kind people too...you are my family, in a way, and such a wonderful one to have!

Bev, I've never used the DE and many swear by feeding it to livestock for that very purpose. Others feed it and complain they still found worms in their flocks, so not sure. I think it's much like any other natural deworming agent...best if used with other natural methods to control parasites but not much good if the conditions for living for the flock is such that it promotes high worm loads.

At the moment just paper towel as they are in the shower stall of my spare bathroom. I use an Ecobrooder and it requires ambient temp of 50degrees so still too cold to put it outside. They are 6-8 days old today.

I think that's why folks get those little food balls on the toes..nothing to knock it off. I use pine shavings in the brooder and I think the friction against the rough bedding keeps the feed cleaned off their feet and bodies. You'll eventually need them anyway, so you might go ahead and put some shavings in your brooder and just keep layering them in as needed instead of cleaning out the brooder...and you'll have a good start on some deep litter~another lovely and natural way to improve the health of your chicken!

Another thing you can do right now that they will love and will help with this, while also improving their health, place a clump of sod with the grass intact in their brooder...they will get inoculated by the soils in your yard to the germs there but in a low dose, they will have some natural minerals and grit they can eat and will climb all over it like a jungle gym and it will clean off their feet and bodies.

I too love how bee shares her wisdom. I talk about what Bee says to do, with my husband whenever things about the chickens come up. I think to myself sometimes "bee would like this" or "Bee would not approve probably".

My husband told me after he processed our rooster, that I could tell Bee that we put on our big girl panties and processed our own chicken. He's funny!

Anyway thank you for your willingness to share your knowledge and insight. I love how you are honest about your feelings of God. He is our mighty savior and I like how you speak of him. I need to wear my testimony on the outside more often and you have shown a great example of that also. Thank You!!!

That's so funny!!

I love your hubby already! You have no idea how important it is to hear you say that about your testimony...I've had the very same feeling for the past few years and not as a choice but as an imperative. I strong conviction that now is the time and if not now, when? Now is when it's time to stand up and be strong as the world is waxing in evil and the battle lines are being more sharply defined and drawn. A person wants to be very sure and certain what side one is standing upon right now and then proclaim it. Proud and firm, gently and steadily, but without any mistake as to if you belong to the world or to God.

Thank YOU!

For the wonderful feedback that at least something I have done has had a positive outcome in that regard. Chickens are lovely and all, but Christ is everything and I mostly want to spread that information more than the other.

I had no idea that I was surrounded by so many brothers & sisters on this forum. Definitely was drawn to Bee's advice as I could tell she was a fellow believer....but I love seeing all the other posts about how others on here are Christ followers as well! Makes my heart happy. Every post makes me think "Praise the Lord". Ahhhh....I love it here.

As a side note, I had 3 chicks hatch this past Sunday and started giving them FF on Monday. So glad I kept it simple as it's been really easy. They are just getting the hang of eating and clean the dish completely. lol Not the best photo of them, but it's what I have at the moment.

I love hearing that! And, indeed, praise the Lord!

Fine looking chicks, BTW!

 

[pdirt]

Ok so my chicks are LoVING the FF but they have cement hard balls of it stuck to their toes.....have tried soaking them off of one but it just doesnt seem to want to come loose......any suggestions? The chicks are still in the house and I am thinking it will wear off when they can finally get outside into some dirt but will it hinder their toes at all?

We had one chick with encrusted chick starter on his toes. It was much harder to remove than I would have thought! What finally worked was soaking it, waiting a few minutes, soaking it again in warm water and then using my fingers to slowly squeeze and crumble the encrusted feed. I had to use a fair amount if pressure and was concerned of hurting his little toes, but no damage was done and the crust finally broke free. It never happened again.

 

[chickengirl1193]

Talking about worms... I recently saw some tape worms in my chickens poop and after bringing a sample to the vet we decided that the load wasnt high enough to treat at the moment if.the birds are healthy. And my birds are visibly healthy and active so ive just been keeping a close eye on weight and well being.
Now my question is, is my worm load bad because I can see some segments? Am I making the right decision on watching body condition and not treating?
Also im a bit discouraged that worms showed up... how should I.change my management to prevent worms in the future? I use deep litter and rake up my run into a compost pile, my.goats had worms when they came to me but are clean now. Right now we have so much snow that they only have their deep litter and a path to the gate and goats hay manger. When the snow melts they are moving to a new pasture and run... any advice is appreciated!

 

[Audio51]

Talking about worms... I recently saw some tape worms in my chickens poop and after bringing a sample to the vet we decided that the load wasn't high enough to treat at the moment if.the birds are healthy. And my birds are visibly healthy and active so ive just been keeping a close eye on weight and well being.
Now my question is, is my worm load bad because I can see some segments? Am I making the right decision on watching body condition and not treating?
Also im a bit discouraged that worms showed up... how should I.change my management to prevent worms in the future? I use deep litter and rake up my run into a compost pile, my.goats had worms when they came to me but are clean now. Right now we have so much snow that they only have their deep litter and a path to the gate and goats hay manger. When the snow melts they are moving to a new pasture and run... any advice is appreciated!

Tapeworms require an intermediate host...usually some sort of insect or snails/slugs, etc. (with dogs and cats it is usually fleas). They cannot change into the larval stage from the egg without this host. . The bird ingests the int host ans the larva attach to the intestinal wall. They periodically shed the segments, which contain eggs, The segments decompose and release the eggs into the soil, where they are ingested by the intermediate host...and so on.. and so on. So unless you are going to eliminate all free ranging I'm not sure how you could prevent them. If I saw them in any animals stools I would treat. They may not be enough of a load now to cause a real problem, but if not treated, they will be,

 

[Beekissed]

Talking about worms... I recently saw some tape worms in my chickens poop and after bringing a sample to the vet we decided that the load wasnt high enough to treat at the moment if.the birds are healthy. And my birds are visibly healthy and active so ive just been keeping a close eye on weight and well being.
Now my question is, is my worm load bad because I can see some segments? Am I making the right decision on watching body condition and not treating?
Also im a bit discouraged that worms showed up... how should I.change my management to prevent worms in the future? I use deep litter and rake up my run into a compost pile, my.goats had worms when they came to me but are clean now. Right now we have so much snow that they only have their deep litter and a path to the gate and goats hay manger. When the snow melts they are moving to a new pasture and run... any advice is appreciated!

I think I really like your vet...very unusual to be so inclined when they could make money by selling you meds. I think your birds are fine and the worm loads are fine if they are active, healthy and producing. You really can't prevent all worms and the goal is to prevent heavy loads and animals that succumb to them. I think that's why so many folks on here get sideways in their livestock paradigms because they've only ever been pet owners and when the pets have worms, we are advised to worm them...and keep worming them like worms are some kind of plague.

With livestock you are breeding and keeping stock for breeding, eating some each year that you cull and always improving on your stock through natural selection~if you are smart, that is~and that is so different from pet keeping. Pets are sort of just pets and there is no coming and going, eating and hatching more, etc. There really is no comparison to these two ways of keeping animals.

The very best tool for keeping animals that thrive with a low level but still existing worm load~or no worm load at all~is culling each year for production, health, feed thrift, and even social behaviors. It can leave you only the healthiest and most hardy birds on the land and those usually aren't the birds that are prone to parasite loads.

I think you are making an excellent decision by not treating. Look at your flock in terms of years instead of days, weeks or months and this will help you make decisions that will affect the whole flock and their general health and well being in a much more efficient manner. Everyone's first inclination is to panic when they see evidence of parasites and they want that gone..NOW. They don't care how much heavy hitting chemicals they put in their flock, they just want anything to do with worms to be gone. They somehow think worms are abnormal and a sign of dirty management practices. Sometimes that is true but if you know it isn't in your case, then you have to look at other causes and approach them in a more steady, long term way.

You can give them a gentle spring worm purge that can help them shed some worms and it still won't be drastic and upset the balance of their intestinal health..something like garlic, ginger root, pumpkin seeds, castor oil and even a gentle soap in the water can all help purge out a few worms. Start incorporating that into your methods in the spring and again at the end of summer while they are molting.

Then really take a good look at your flock in March and determine who is laying and who is not and take a hard line on culling out the nonlayers....usually this will throw a net over the animals most likely to be carrying most of the worm loads in your flock. Studies have shown that it's usually only 5% of any herd or flock that is carrying 90% of the herd/flock's entire worm load. If you can eliminate these animals it can stop the cycle...they are like one big parasite vector walking around in the flock.

Go low and slow on treatments for anything like this, particularly if your birds are healthy and producing. Don't upset their balance and just take a few mild steps to correct the direction of your flock...the most important being the power of the cull. We are the predator for our flock and any flock or herd is stronger and healthier if they have natural predators weeding out the sick and nonproducing animals that are competing for food and living in proximity with the healthier animals. Those weaker animals are potential parasite and disease vectors and it's a good thing to take them out of the flock.

The first time I've ever seen worms in one of my birds was last year when I got my old flock back from a place of poor management. I didn't cull for worms, I was culling for nonlaying, overeating, poor social behaviors, etc. In doing so I culled a hen with wry tail that wasn't laying, was a loner, was a heavy eater and fat and sassy, no visual signs of worms...but she had tape worms in her. There is no doubt she brought those worms along with her from the other place, but I also killed other birds that year that didn't have worms.

Why her? I'm not sure, but I've killed many birds since her now and haven't found a single tape worm...or any worm, though they had been exposed to her and presumably she was shedding eggs into the soils of the coop and land. Something about that particular chicken made her a vector...same diet, same living area, same management as the other birds but she alone had these worms. Could explain why she wasn't laying, was isolated from the flock, was overeating(anemia signals the body to take in more nutrients) and not as active in foraging as the other birds.

Whatever the reason, taking her out took out the tape worms in this flock and I'm glad she is gone. Many would argue that treating for worms would also take out the tape worms from the flock, but would it? Or would it simply create tape worms that survived the meds and continued to be hosted by certain members of the flock more prone to be vectors, there to keep reproducing and loading up the soils with eggs...eggs that could find their way to weaker animals like young chicks.

It's all in how you want to manage your flock...with immediate and short term solutions that may or may not be effective for the long term, which will mean you have to keep repeating them over and over. Or with a long term approach and more final solutions that can help you never have to worry about worms or illnesses in your flocks because you have the strongest flock possible.

 

[Scott H]

I don't see how killing worms in a chicken makes for a resistant worm? Does not make sense. Now if you partially treated and somehow a worm survived and lived and somehow got back into a chicken and then laid eggs it may lay resistant eggs......does that make sense to you? Now, if you saw worms in your poop would you monitor your health or treat?
Sometimes if the worm load is too great and you treat, you kill the chicken. But I guess that's just culling in another way. I would treat my chickens. Everytime they poop they are leaving more worm eggs and then you really have a problem. But you can just cull (kill) sickly birds and not bother with a simple treatment. Just my humble opinion.

 

[Beekissed]

I don't see how killing worms in a chicken makes for a resistant worm? Does not make sense. Now if you partially treated and somehow a worm survived and lived and somehow got back into a chicken and then laid eggs it may lay resistant eggs......does that make sense to you? Now, if you saw worms in your poop would you monitor your health or treat?
Sometimes if the worm load is too great and you treat, you kill the chicken. But I guess that's just culling in another way. I would treat my chickens. Everytime they poop they are leaving more worm eggs and then you really have a problem. But you can just cull (kill) sickly birds and not bother with a simple treatment. Just my humble opinion.

Because you are not sure you are killing all the worms. Some survive. They now know this in the agriculture sciences and it's why the vet declined to treat. The worms that survive will breed other worms that can survive your worm treatment....so then you have to switch wormers. Then there will be lone survivors of that treatment. Now you have a worm gene pool that can survive two distinct wormers and is getting stronger genetics with each treatment. Soon you have a worm that no chemical will kill and then what will you do for worms?

If you think this is farfetched theory, you need to do some reading up on worm management for livestock. Now, in light of that, do you want a stronger worm or do you want a stronger chicken? Keep worming each time you see a worm and you will find you will just keep getting more and stronger worm loads that your flock can't possibly survive.

I know it seems like just treating for worms each time you see worms is the solution but many agricultural scientists are now advising against this method and it's because they had to keep developing stronger and more harsh chemicals to kill the super worms. Just like they do now with the super germs we have in the medical field...all because there are doctors and patients who want an antibiotic to take at the first sign of a sniffle. And farmers who would rather give broad spectrum antibiotics to their animals instead of using more natural and effective management practices.

If I saw worms in my poop I'd not treat with chemical wormers by any means...but do you imagine you don't have worms in your body simply because you do not see them in your poop? You do. Every creature plays host to intestinal parasites, be they few or many.

 

[Scott H]

Bee, we are going to have to agree to disagree. Your arguement sounds thought out and reasonable but is not based on fact. If you took my poo in and had it checked, there would be no worms. Seriously, I had worms when I was kid and you know it when you have worms! Worm treatments are safe and effective and I can't believe if you found you had worms in YOU you would up the garlic, pumpkin seeds, DE, whatever to keep your worm load down. Then if it got too bad cull then?
BTW, if you treat properly, and that means follow up treatments as prescribed, you will eliminate all worms. I CAN see that if not treated properly a drug resistant worm could be created. Done correctly all worms will be killed......I am living proof of that.