FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[ChickenCanoe]

What number of containers of FF is best to have going and how far apart should their starts be? Right now I have one going but I know I need more... I was thinking 3.

It all depends on the number of birds and if they are getting dry feed as well.
I don't think you'll need more than 1

I have about 70 birds now. During the coldest weather when I couldn't FF every day and they were getting mostly dry feed, I had one 5 gallon bucket going.
Now that it's warmer and they all get some every day. I have three of the 5 gallon buckets going and I have to start/renew one every day or 2.

Bee...or anyone with experience with this...we have a few chickens with what we believe to be lice. They're fast moving, reddish orange and mostly around the vent. One bird is visibly ill. I dusted the areas where we could see lice with some pine wood ash tonight. I have occasionally placed a good pile of wood ash for them to dust bath in, but the one sick bird, I don't think she ever used it. I know the wood ash is supposed to be a good preventative of lice and mites, but does it work as a treatment? Bee, I thought I read in your "gnarly bunch" posts that this is exactly what you did to treat lice/mites. Is my memory serving me correct? I plan to dust the rest of the bird tomorrow with ash as well.

We'd rather not use the Sevin dust, but will consider it if it's the best or most humane option.

Things like wood ash and DE may be good choices as a preventive measure but once you have an infestation, tinkering with benign measures will only prolong your bird's suffering and a real treatment is needed.
I'm not one to medicate or use poisons prophylactically and try to keep the flock as organic and natural as possible. That said, I do keep 5% Sevin dust, a combiotic and corid on hand just in case.
A heavy infestation will make the bird susceptible to other parasites and disease and most likely eventually die.
You'll get much more complete information in the following article.

http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/2947/northern-fowl-mite-management

I would remove all bedding and nest box material completely. Treat the whole building, especially cracks and crevices and every bird in the flock completely work it into all the feathers down to the skin, especially under wings and around vent and underside.
You'll have to give a second treatment in a week or so and monitor them daily.
Since mites are becoming immune to some treatments, it may be necessary to use more than 1. That may be why some people report that Sevin dust isn't having an effect.

 

[Ms Jellybean]

I only have 4 hens about 6 months old. I have one bucket. It is an 8 qt food grade from a restaurant supply. I make up enough ff to last about 4-5 days. I keep mine fairly dry, like grout. As I get lower in the bucket it tends to get a little more moist. When I get down to about one or two more feedings, I fill it back up about 3/4 with just dry pellets, water and some BOSS. It is bubbly, near the top with absorption, and ready to feed out the next feeding which is usually 12 hours apart.

I continue in this fashion over and over again. I don't refresh every time I feed but some people do. Some only feed once a day, I feed twice. My bucket tends to need refreshing in the evenings as that is more convenient for me anyway and by the following morning it smells nice and sour again.

What is BOSS? Is that like ACV?

 

[ChickenCanoe]

BOSS is Black Oil Sunflower Seed - hence the acronym.
ACV = Apple cider vinegar (which should be raw to have any health benefits)

BOSS is extremely high in protein, so use caution with the amount you add. It's good to boost protein of a low protein feed or while the birds are molting.

 

[Beekissed]

Bee...or anyone with experience with this...we have a few chickens with what we believe to be lice. They're fast moving, reddish orange and mostly around the vent. One bird is visibly ill. I dusted the areas where we could see lice with some pine wood ash tonight. I have occasionally placed a good pile of wood ash for them to dust bath in, but the one sick bird, I don't think she ever used it. I know the wood ash is supposed to be a good preventative of lice and mites, but does it work as a treatment? Bee, I thought I read in your "gnarly bunch" posts that this is exactly what you did to treat lice/mites. Is my memory serving me correct? I plan to dust the rest of the bird tomorrow with ash as well.

We'd rather not use the Sevin dust, but will consider it if it's the best or most humane option.

I did use the ashes and they would work for awhile but the lice kept coming back eventually. The last thing I did was dust them thoroughly with Pyrethrin dust and that was the last time I had to treat for that. I had also placed some on the roosts and in the nests. No more lice.

Pyrethrin is the more natural version of Permethrin but harder to find...you can get it online. Sulfur dust is easy to find and may work but I'm thinking it's more effective on mites than lice maybe...never tried it for lice. Permethrin is the treatment they use on human lice, and many OTs use the permethrin dust in their poultry houses and you can find it easily at any garden center. Sweet lime dust can desiccate the bugs and the eggs but I've never used it for lice so cannot attest to the efficacy of it.

Whatever you dust with, I'd just limit it to the bird and where they sleep and nest and don't go hog wild on dusting the coop and litter...if you have beneficial bugs there you won't want to kill them and just treating the contact areas seem to do the job.

Sevin?

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Safety

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Pyrethrin?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrethrin

Permethrin?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permethrin

 

[Tikkijane]

What number of containers of FF is best to have going and how far apart should their starts be?  Right now I have one going but I know I need more...  I was thinking 3. 

I use one, backslopping at the bottom and adding new feed and water.

 

[Tikkijane]

You'll only need one bucket and when it gets low in the bucket you just add fresh feed and water and stir it well.  The old feed will inoculate and jump start the ferment on the new feed and you can feed that the very next day. 

For the babies, I use a mixing bowl with lid- we add at night and it's ready by morning.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I have figured out how much dry feed I can comfortably ferment in a 5 gallon bucket. There are points during the fermentation when the feed is puffed up, and if it is too close to the top of the bucket, then stirring the FF without spilling is tricky.

I have figured I can ferment 2 gallons (about 12 lbs) of feed in a 5 gallon bucket, and that requires 2.25 gallons of water to get it to a consistency I can easily work with. Any drier than that and it is a bit too stiff for me to stir.

I have a five-bucket rotation. I send out an entire 5 gallon bucket of FF in the morning, it is scooped into the troughs and comes back empty. Then I refill it with my recipe, plus a couple scoops from the most fermented bucket as "backslop." By the next morning it is just as puffed up as the others are.

We know 12 lbs of feed isn't enough for our whole flock in a day, so we still have dry feed available free choice. They are cleaning up the FF.

Once we are sure this is going smoothly, we will probably start sending out 2 buckets every day.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I'm pretty well with you.
How many birds do you have.

Everyone's situation will vary but I've found, I have to keep the feed covered with water, otherwise it's too dry.
I just fed some FF and the feed in the middle of the bucket was completely dry, never wetted so therefor never fermented.
I'm not fermenting crumbles or pellets. My feed is more of a mash with a lot of whole/cracked grain. So the mash doesn't allow good penetration of water and by extension, probiotics.
IMO, if the water can't get there, neither can bacteria and yeast.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I'm pretty well with you.
How many birds do you have.

Everyone's situation will vary but I've found, I have to keep the feed covered with water, otherwise it's too dry.
I just fed some FF and the feed in the middle of the bucket was completely dry, never wetted so therefor never fermented.
I'm not fermenting crumbles or pellets. My feed is more of a mash with a lot of whole/cracked grain. So the mash doesn't allow good penetration of water and by extension, probiotics.
IMO, if the water can't get there, neither can bacteria and yeast.

I'm feeding an all purpose poultry pellet and topping off the second gallon with a little bit of alfalfa pellets ... maybe a pound of the alfalfa to the 11 lbs of poultry pellets.

I mix this together dry, then I mix it again as soon as I add the water, and keep mixing every few minutes until it is starting to absorb water. The alfalfa pellets are huge, and they absorb a lot of water, and they require more mixing to incorporate them. I'd prefer to use alfalfa meal, or smaller alfalfa pellets. But the feed store had the big pellets, and I can manage them okay. Then I leave it for a while, and when I feel like mixing it again, that's when I add the extra 1/4 gallon of water.

I'd also love to be working with a "mash" vs a pelleted feed. Maybe during my next feed tweak I'll find a mash ...

I mix it really well that first and second day until the alfalfa is distributed. I keep it in my kitchen so I can mess with it frequently.

I'm feeding about 130 birds total. But some of those are ducks and haven't been invited to the FF party yet. I have about 110 birds in the GenPop. They are devouring the 5 gallons of FF ... they also get scratch (dry, tossed in their litter and some out in their pasture) as I'm using a higher protein pellet.

I'll probably start being more deliberate with the quantities of scratch so I have a closer estimate about the base-line protein percentage in their diet.

I think the universal tidbit from my experience is that a 5 gallon bucket is good for fermenting about 12 lbs of dry feed.

 

[pdirt]

Things like wood ash and DE may be good choices as a preventive measure but once you have an infestation, tinkering with benign measures will only prolong your bird's suffering and a real treatment is needed.
I'm not one to medicate or use poisons prophylactically and try to keep the flock as organic and natural as possible. That said, I do keep 5% Sevin dust, a combiotic and corid on hand just in case.
A heavy infestation will make the bird susceptible to other parasites and disease and most likely eventually die.
You'll get much more complete information in the following article.

http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/2947/northern-fowl-mite-management

I would remove all bedding and nest box material completely. Treat the whole building, especially cracks and crevices and every bird in the flock completely work it into all the feathers down to the skin, especially under wings and around vent and underside.
You'll have to give a second treatment in a week or so and monitor them daily.
Since mites are becoming immune to some treatments, it may be necessary to use more than 1. That may be why some people report that Sevin dust isn't having an effect.

Thanks CC for the info and link. My hunch too was that the wood ash may not be enough with a bad infestation. Yes, one bird is not well, pale comb, sitting all the time...so we really want to get this under control quick.

I did use the ashes and they would work for awhile but the lice kept coming back eventually. The last thing I did was dust them thoroughly with Pyrethrin dust and that was the last time I had to treat for that. I had also placed some on the roosts and in the nests. No more lice.

Pyrethrin is the more natural version of Permethrin but harder to find...you can get it online. Sulfur dust is easy to find and may work but I'm thinking it's more effective on mites than lice maybe...never tried it for lice. Permethrin is the treatment they use on human lice, and many OTs use the permethrin dust in their poultry houses and you can find it easily at any garden center. Sweet lime dust can desiccate the bugs and the eggs but I've never used it for lice so cannot attest to the efficacy of it.

Whatever you dust with, I'd just limit it to the bird and where they sleep and nest and don't go hog wild on dusting the coop and litter...if you have beneficial bugs there you won't want to kill them and just treating the contact areas seem to do the job.

Sevin?


Pyrethrin?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrethrin

Permethrin?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permethrin

Thanks Bee, your experience is truly invaluable. The local feed store did not have the Permethrin dust, which is just as well since I didn't want to use it anyway. Just ordered some 1% Pyrethrin dust from Amazon. It's derived from Chrysanthemums, according to the wikipedia link you posted. Still a neurotoxin (to insects) so I'll be prudent with it and not overdo it.

We do have some NuStock on hand, would that be useful at all or is the pine tar too strong to use near the vent, for the lice eggs? I've also read some good results with using coconut oil to treat the lice eggs, but it's still not very warm here yet and the oil solidifies below about 70F. I will probably just try it or the nu stock anyway tomorrow, after dusting her again more thoroughly today with more wood ash. A couple other birds (we haven't yet checked all of them) are infested as well but are presently functioning just fine and seem healthy...good feathers/comb, eating, drinking and laying eggs.

BTW, for those of you ordering from Amazon and have Prime...there is a lawsuit against them regarding inflating prices for "free shipping"...including those items that are marked as "Prime". I have been noticing some tricky twists lately when it comes to ordering from Amazon. Ie, I just ordered the 1% Pyrethrin dust, Prime and opted for the the 1-day shipping which cost an additional $3.99. I then added an item listed as "add-on" if you order at least $25 shipped from Amazon. The 1-day shipping for both products rose to $7.99, which is strange because the "add-on items" are all advertised as they ship for free if you order at least $25 in your cart. I removed the add-on item and the shipping cost dropped back to $3.99. Hmph...I love what Amazon does and offers but I don't like not knowing upfront the costs involved.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index...._prices_membership_free_shipping_lawsuit.html

Okay, enough, thanks for the diversion of lice and Amazon....back to the topic of Fermented Feed!