FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[subhanalah]

Thanks for these details. Our formulated feed doesn't contain any alfalfa. I keep diluting the FF/alfalfa mix with more water and dry feed. The more I dilute it, the more they tear into their FF in the morning. I might try fermenting by itself and feed it separately, free choice.
I know your post was from several days ago and sounds like you were able to rectify it. Unpasteurized ACV will convert alcohol into more acetic acid. I have made ACV from scratch a few times now and my experience is the ACV mother is tempermental. The active/live mother will sit on top of the fermenting apple cider...if you move the jar, the floating mother will "die", sink to the bottom and in a week or two a new one will start to form. It takes 2-3 months to go from fresh pressed apple cider to apple cider vinegar. My point being is even in an ideal setting for ACV mother to do it's job, it takes quite a while for it to convert alcohol to vinegar. A few days is not going to do it, especially with all that stirring. ANY VINEGAR (white, rice wine, pasteurized ACV, unpasteurized ACV, etc) will help give a new batch of FF a headstart on acidity. The acid environment (which the lactic acid bacteria will eventually create in a few days) is important for the battle of the bacteria...will it swing to the putrefying bacteria or the fermentive ones? In most/many cases, the fermenting bacteria (yeasts and LABs) will just naturally win if you block most of the oxygen (very wet feed in a bucket fits the bill). Adding a SMALL amount of vinegar to a brand-new batch will hedge your bets, if you like, but it's not necessary.

In terms of your alcoholic smelling FF, personally, I would have composted it. Now that you mixed it with some other ingredients and the alcohol smell is gone, perhaps the alcohol was converted after all or simply just diluted to a point you can't smell it. I've read that chickens' livers are not well equipped to deal with alcohol, but surely they have encountered fermenting fruit in the wild and could tolerate it occasionally.

BTW, I am one of those note of the popular vote here on this thread in using starters. I do use a starter. I want to complicate matters for my own very good reasons. You certainly don't need them and I do recommend trying to make FF at least once without anything...just water and feed, so you have experience that it can and does work so simply. I'm not here to argue with anyone about the use of starters or even discuss it any further on this thread as that's not why this thread was started. PM me if your interested in how/why what do to my FF.
Like I said above, ACV after only a few days will not turn large amounts of alcohol into vinegar and it certainly won't turn it into alcohol. Sounds like you had some sort of yeast imbalance. It could have been from the probiotic supplement, but I doubt it. Your feed (and your local air) could just naturally be rich in yeasts ready to make alcohol. It's hard to tell. Start a (small) new batch with just water and feed and see what you get.
That looks like harmless Kahm yeast. Sometimes it stays thin like that and other times it gets thick and ripple-like. I get it all the time especially on my lacto-fermented pickles. No need to remove it, but you can simply stir it in if you wish. Some people get it more often than others and with different ferments. For example, our sauerkraut never grows Kahm yeast but our pickles do. I usually remove it in the pickles because it can change the flavor slightly. It's not required for lacto-fermentation, but I've never seen it anywhere but in a mature lacto-fermented product.

I hypothesize both yes and no. As with most "clinical studies" the amount of starter I used was WAY overboard! The bacteria that was awesome ran out of food too quickly, started to die off and when it was consumed, it was consumed by the yeast and allowed the yeast to take over.

Also, perhaps when the vinegar was added, it made the environment impossible for the bacteria to live,feeding the yeast more,causing a LOT of waste product alcohols. When I added the additional oatmeal, I'm bnot sure how it helped,but shortly after,it started smelling sweet again. Also, I was using the oatmeal consistency (how scientific?) in this thread.
Its great to sprinkle around my yard to give bonus surprises in the yard for the animals. The dogs love the stuff.

 

[pdirt]

I want to do some research too. I don't seem to have enough time to make the feed, much less 2 batches each day. I have a microscope I need to send to the manufacturer for refurbishing. When I get it back, I'll do comparisons. For starters, I use a little kefir with 11 varieties of bacteria and a bit of gro-2-max formulated specifically for chickens. The second day, there's a good layer of scoby and it starts to have a good aroma. By the third day it smells sour.

If you do get your microscope up and running, let me know. I'd sure be interested in sending you some of my FF to see what you notice in it.

 

[Ms Jellybean]

How thick is too thick for the FF? Mine is like thick peanut butter now. Should I add a bit of water? I will be feeding new chicks with it next week.

 

[LindaB220]

Quote:
Great, that simplifies it for me.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

How thick is too thick for the FF? Mine is like thick peanut butter now. Should I add a bit of water? I will be feeding new chicks with it next week.

Studies have been done at close feed to water rations of 1:1.2-1:1.4 ...

You're going for a "wet mash" consistency, not a "liquid diet" consistency.

Some people use a lot of extra water and then strain it. I find straining to not be very effective in my situation.

 

[Ms Jellybean]

Studies have been done at close feed to water rations of 1:1.2-1:1.4 ...

You're going for a "wet mash" consistency, not a "liquid diet" consistency.

Some people use a lot of extra water and then strain it. I find straining to not be very effective in my situation.

So oatmeal to thick peanut butter consistency is good then. I may add a smidgen more water. Not much though.

I have never fed anything wet mash so I don't know what that would be like.

 

[subhanalah]

So oatmeal to thick peanut butter consistency is good then.  I may add a smidgen more water.  Not much though. 

I have never fed anything wet mash so I don't know what that would be like. 

what I have been doing is when I add food every day, and it makes it get pretty thick, like dryish peanut butter and smooth it out. Then I add water to rinse the side of the bucket and leave about 1/2 to 1 inch of water above the dry without stirring. This way it stays covered by water and it will absorb wwhat it needs and leave the standing water on top, or when I feed I scoop straight from the bottom, it's normally pretty thick, THEN I stir it and put it away for the next meal. I only add food/water once per day.

 

[LindaB220]

Well ... I for one am curious about what starter you are using, and wonder if you have information about how using the starter compares to not using it. I've only done a little bit of research about starters, and the off-the-shelf products I've found seem kinda vague, and don't seem to match up with the research I've read about how specific starters could be helpful when fermenting grains ... and so on ... so I felt as though I kinda hit a wall with that research.

I'm pretty sure pdirt is using EM-1. I bought mine and started making bokashi 3 weeks ago. I'm supposed to add a couple of handfuls to a bucket and let it ferment. Time got away from me so it won't be ready for a couple of days and chicks will be here today.

 

[Ms Jellybean]

what I have been doing is when I add food every day, and it makes it get pretty thick, like dryish peanut butter and smooth it out. Then I add water to rinse the side of the bucket and leave about 1/2 to 1 inch of water above the dry without stirring. This way it stays covered by water and it will absorb wwhat it needs and leave the standing water on top, or when I feed I scoop straight from the bottom, it's normally pretty thick, THEN I stir it and put it away for the next meal. I only add food/water once per day.

Does it need to stay covered with water? If so, mine is too dry.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Does it need to stay covered with water?  If so, mine is too dry.  

Some people say yes (keep it covered with water at all times), some say no (mix it only as moist as you want to feed it).