FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[Anuthatch]

You know, they are just so cute it is hard to let them go for too long w/o food but I suspect you are right.

I may do that when they are a little older. They went 4 hours yesterday without eating and the mix was mostly dry crumbles - especially on the top where I thought I could convince them if they pecked at the dry they might like the FF. Nope. I don't get it because I thought chickens were supposed to just LOVE fermented feed.

 

[Tikkijane]

Then you won't have any cultures period.  Except all the wild yeasts, virulent viruses, strange bacteria, and funky molds that settle naturally on your wet feed.

Nothing is live because you haven't *started* fermenting.

If you have credible information that says hot water on initial ferment kills cultures, please share them. If you are adding live cultures, I'd assume boiling would affect.

And then start with all the pages here that suggest it, and make your way out to the WWW.

I'll post the ones I have seen this morning once I get back home this afternoonm

 

[niqueie]

I don't think she meant the cultures but the natural starts that are already in the water and feed. I think the hot water and all that is unnecessary, because of the many people who use regular temp water and achieve great results every time. The worry for bad natural cultures taking over is not something to worry about if your not capping it and if your stirring.

 

[niqueie]

You know, they are just so cute it is hard to let them go for too long w/o food but I suspect you are right.    I may do that when they are a little older.   They went 4 hours yesterday without eating and the mix was mostly dry crumbles - especially on the top where I thought I could convince them if they pecked at the dry they might like the FF.   Nope.   I don't get it because I thought chickens were supposed to just LOVE fermented feed. 

I know what you mean. I always kept FF accessible in my brooder until they were 4-5 weeks. But be careful to not give them too much food when they get bigger. I just read about someone who always was feeding their 6 month old birds and it ended up with one of her birds dying of organ failure from being overweight. It was a layer too, not a CX.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

If you have credible information that says hot water on initial ferment kills cultures, please share them.

I suppose you have never heard of a certain Frenchman by the name of Louis Pasteur? He came up with a little procedure known as ?Pasteurization. Pasteurization basically consists of applying various temps of hot water, heat or steam to food items for various times to kill cultures (not colonies) of yeasts, viruses, bacteria, molds, and other pathogens. Carrying this idea that hot water is not a sterilizer to its logical conclusion you should be able to gather up hard boiled Easter eggs this Sunday afternoon, put the colored eggs in an incubator and expect to hatch baby chicks. Please let me know how many you pip.

In the same vane, both semen and fertilized ovum are typically stored in liquid hydrogen at a temperature of about minus 330 degrees to minus 345 degrees Fahrenheit. Another way to view this is to remember that these temperatures are 542 degrees to 557 degrees below the boiling point of water at sea level.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

...

Here's a way to simplify your life...feed once a day and in the evening time during the warmer months. This will get your birds back in the run and will help you cut your feed bill, while also keeping your flock healthier by letting them fill up on foraged, healthier foods before eating the grain based feeds. Kitchen scraps can be a part of what they forage during the day...you can throw them on the compost pile in the morning and let them "forage" for the food. It adds diversity to their diet and can be food they had to work for, which is always good.

By doing so, you can lessen their dependence on grain based feeds, they can fill up on free food all day long and then, any bird that didn't find enough out on the green can always get a full belly before going to bed. It's all a win/win situation....and conditions the birds to come back to the coop for their evening meal. No scratch needed...that saves you money also. If you want to keep the scratch, add it to your FF for variety. At this time of the year and in peak laying season, I'd only make the scratch about 1/4 of their total FF ration, with layer making up the rest.

I have a friend that lives a bit south of you and that's the way she handles her adult flocks. She isn't fermenting that I know of but she turns them out in the morning and says, there's the woods, go for it. Being in SC she has forage much longer through the year than I do.
Then in the afternoon she lets them free feed their poultry ration. I think that method reinforces their free range capabilities.

Great FAQ! A couple of suggestions...you mention using boiling water to speed up the ferment. I think you were joking but if folks miss the joke they will potentially kill off most of the lactic acid bacteria if they use boiling water. Whereas yeasts are plentiful in the air, lactic acid bacteria are not. Also you said the higher pH will eat metal buckets...the pH is actually lower in this type of fermentation. Nice work!

Quote:

I changed it to hot water- have read numerous places to use for initial ferment. They would kill on secondary ferment, but on initial, if you're just starting with feed and water, you don't have any cultures to kill yet, afaik.

Quote:

Nothing is live because you haven't *started* fermenting.

If you have credible information that says hot water on initial ferment kills cultures, please share them. If you are adding live cultures, I'd assume boiling would affect.
...afternoon

The hot water is probably a good idea for starting a new batch. I usually have a bit left in the bottom of the bucket. When starting new, I use a probiotic powder that says to not let it get above 103F or below 33F. However if the water is merely hot, say 100, it will cool off pretty quickly pouring it into the feed.

I know what you mean. I always kept FF accessible in my brooder until they were 4-5 weeks. But be careful to not give them too much food when they get bigger. I just read about someone who always was feeding their 6 month old birds and it ended up with one of her birds dying of organ failure from being overweight. It was a layer too, not a CX.

I once killed a nice hen with too much scratch. I just threw a handful of oats and BOSS in a pen with 12 birds a few times a day, not really keeping track. When I opened her up she was loaded with fat, you couldn't even see the gizzard. The rest went on an immediate diet.

If one is adding a lot of grain to the FF then they may be getting into the same situation, especially if free feeding.

 

[Beekissed]

I don't think she meant the cultures but the natural starts that are already in the water and feed. I think the hot water and all that is unnecessary, because of the many people who use regular temp water and achieve great results every time. The worry for bad natural cultures taking over is not something to worry about if your not capping it and if your stirring.

Very unnecessary. If a person wants to provide warm water if they are trying to ferment in the winter, this might hasten ferment but you can kill bread yeast by using too hot tap water and the wild yeasts we are collecting for the ferment won't even be able to establish until that hot water cools.....so what's the point?

I know what you mean. I always kept FF accessible in my brooder until they were 4-5 weeks. But be careful to not give them too much food when they get bigger. I just read about someone who always was feeding their 6 month old birds and it ended up with one of her birds dying of organ failure from being overweight. It was a layer too, not a CX.

Now, I just had this discussion on another thread and those folks just swore up and down you can't overfeed a chicken and that free choice feeding is better for them.

It's a nice way of justifying dumping feed into a big container and not having to think about it again for a week or so before you have to refill it.

ANY creature can overeat and die from the side effects of that overeating, why in the world would chickens be exclusively excluded from that fact, I wonder?

 

[Anuthatch]

Ok, I'm pretty convinced I need to starve (wait out) my chicks into eating their FF.

I'm already very convinced that FF is the best benefit to them, I'm just confused why they don't like it.

They are 5 days old and appear strong and healthy so ...here goes. I feel better about waiting them out since they've had some days to acclimate. When I get home tonight, the dry comes out and the FF goes in.

One last pause......My FF is now a week old. It's not moldy. When I scoop it out I drain the water so it's like a dry ish corn meal batter. When I mix in a few dry crumbles will make it peanut butter as it's already very close when drained. So I should have no worries it will kill them if they eat it? I guess my only remaining concern is that they are not eating it because it's poison.

Any body want to give me a push?

 

[Beekissed]

Ok, I'm pretty convinced I need to starve (wait out) my chicks into eating their FF.

I'm already very convinced that FF is the best benefit to them, I'm just confused why they don't like it.

They are 5 days old and appear strong and healthy so ...here goes. I feel better about waiting them out since they've had some days to acclimate. When I get home tonight, the dry comes out and the FF goes in.

One last pause......My FF is now a week old. It's not moldy. When I scoop it out I drain the water so it's like a dry ish corn meal batter. When I mix in a few dry crumbles will make it peanut butter as it's already very close when drained. So I should have no worries it will kill them if they eat it? I guess my only remaining concern is that they are not eating it because it's poison.

Any body want to give me a push?

It won't kill them....does it smell pleasantly sour? No green or black mold growth? Fluid is nice and milky looking? It will be fine. Remove the choices and let them get hungry and you will see how quickly they adapt. All through this thread are folks just like you who had chicks that didn't like the FF but were given a choice at first between dry and wet feeds...and they are going to naturally prefer the dry feed because it's easier to eat, it's more like their natural foods, etc.

Take out the dry, feed the FF.....we've been doing this for 2 years now and no reported chicken or chick deaths due to feeding FF. No worries.

 

[chickengirl1193]

Good instincts!  You don't want genetics you are constantly propping up with medicine and special care....that's not a strong flock and never will be.  The difference can be a flock that is easy and a delight to keep and will yield more benefits than they will worry and grief.  You are headed in the right direction with that. 


Here's a way to simplify your life...feed once a day and in the evening time during the warmer months.  This will get your birds back in the run and will help you cut your feed bill, while also keeping your flock healthier by letting them fill up on foraged, healthier foods before eating the grain based feeds.  Kitchen scraps can be a part of what they forage during the day...you can throw them on the compost pile in the morning and let them "forage" for the food.  It adds diversity to their diet and can be food they had to work for, which is always good. 

By doing so, you can lessen their dependence on grain based feeds, they can fill up on free food all day long and then, any bird that didn't find enough out on the green can always get a full belly before going to bed.  It's all a win/win situation....and conditions the birds to come back to the coop for their evening meal.  No scratch needed...that saves you money also.  If you want to keep the scratch, add it to your FF for variety.  At this time of the year and in peak laying season, I'd only make the scratch about 1/4 of their total FF ration, with layer making up the rest. 

Exactly. Thats what im trying to make my mom understand lol. I think he ate some hay tho and it just needs to break down. Right now im only offering FF and nothing else until he seems better.