FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[KrazyChromatics]

so idk if my thinking on this is wrong but here we go...

so what im trying to get out of my feed is a wider range of nutrient source, a more dense feed if you will, so that i can feed less to my layers an they get more out of it, and i can raise the amount in the freezer birds by a little and they get a lot more out of it... so far ive been happy except my girls are more inconsistant with eggs but im taking into account that they are in a barn loft and the seasons are changing. but from the eggs i have been getting i think i have to increase the alfalfa a bit more and add less scratch, ive been finding that their yolks are much much larger but the membrane is weaker, and the inner membrane is very tough while the shell seems a little thin to cracking them is an adventure sometimes .... but im also dealing with1-4 year old, 3-3 year olds and 1-2 year old, the banties and new hens are laying great eggs, although their yolk isnt quite as orangy as id like them to be but the shells are hard and the yolks full and thick... i should also add that their eggs were similar all summer when fed free choice layer also, with the exception of a now larger yolk and tougher membrane....

i have a few more girls that should start laying soon also. the also have access to oyster shell in their dusty bin as well as grit....

and this winter im going to start farming mealies, those will be a once daily snack as just a supplement i dont think they would hold up too well in FF lol, also i plan to feed them live. i may do super worms too.... at this time i wont have any chicks, the youngest will be 4 or 5 months old so it will be layer, alfalfa, corn, BOSS .... but id like to add something more... i might mash up apples squash and tomatos and freeze it and feed it out with the mealies as a warm winter snack, good for hydration too at least...

 

[RoseMarie1]

Quote:Originally Posted by Beekissed
LOL LOL LOL

yes I do because you can tell she is like what? huh? Now WHY would you wanna go and do that for?

I always have to grin when I see it.

 

[suncatcher]

subscribing

 

[wlhtx]

I took out the scratch and added some ground flax seeds to my mix this morning. I think I read that flax seeds are good for protein? Anyways, I had some on hand that I haven't used in awhile and I'm trying to up my protein a bit because (1) it's nearing the end of a very dry summer here and I'm starting to be concerned about how many bugs they're finding in my pasture and (2) my birds are molting like crazy. I feel fairly confident that they are currently lacking in protein just because I have had zero eggs in 6 days from 28 birds that are at or past POL. I know that this is the time of year that many birds naturally start slowing down in production, but I have had a pretty poor showing production-wise from them for the past couple months. Again, I blame the excessive heat and no rain. But I had hoped they would at least return to a semi-normal rate as temps cool off, before full blown winter gets here...

 

[suncatcher]

I bought some cheap tins of sardines, and have fed them once or twice a week to help with the growing in of feathers after they molt. Seems to me they need the extra protein when they molt. I would think any kind of seeds would up their protein.

 

[JJL74]

I'm bringing this thread back to the top because the one in the meat bird forum is getting some layer traffic now.  I haven't been weighing my girls or anything, and I haven't used the 5 gallon buckets yet, but I have been making the fermented mash.  I have run out of ACV as well as the pasteurized stuff so I'm going to have to drop back to dry feed until I can scrounge up the money to get more.  I will say, my girls gobble it up like I haven't fed them in days.

Once they reach about 18 weeks, I'm going to have to develop them a layer formula with whole and/or cracked grains bought in bulk, like Beekissed has done.  I can't wait for the first eggs.  I'm at 8 weeks tomorrow.

I've been using Lactic Acid Bacteria as my starter. It is cheep and easy to make. Lacto fermentation is also very good for the bird, but I also use ACV in their water. LAB will kill salmonella. If you YouTube Bryan McGrath and Lacto Fermentation he will show you how to make it cheep and easily. Also is great to spray in the coop.

 

[wlhtx]

You don't necessarily HAVE to have a starter. Just put the dry food and water in and wait a couple days. The necessary spores are already in the air and you food will still ferment, though maybe not in 12 hrs. But I found that even wet food (not fermented) is still a better alternative than dry. Just IMO.

 

[suncatcher]

Very interesting you tubes on growing your own Lacto Bacillus, thanks for sharing! I had no idea you could get LAB from things I already have in my kitchen.

 

[Beekissed]

You don't necessarily HAVE to have a starter. Just put the dry food and water in and wait a couple days. The necessary spores are already in the air and you food will still ferment, though maybe not in 12 hrs. But I found that even wet food (not fermented) is still a better alternative than dry. Just IMO.

Yep...you don't need a starter and you don't need LABs to add to the mix. They will inoculate from spores in the air and will grow their own colony...after you have that colony, just keep some fluids from it going in your feed bucket and you need never add ACV or LABs again. It should be able to maintain a healthy colony of these in the feed/fluid at all times without your help.

As for adding proteins during molt because one is not getting eggs, it's a moot point. It may make you feel better or like you are doing something productive but it won't matter one bit to the chicken if you are already feeding a balanced ration. Their bodies can only metabolize a certain amount of protein and those proteins are utilized in various ways only. When production slows due to molt/season it is invariably due to natural hormone shifts that signal the body to stop reproducing as heavily. No amount of protein is going to fool those hormones into laying eggs again~well..maybe a few select soy proteins in high volume in the feed. But...if it were that simple you could just chuck the high pro to them all year and get an egg a day out of each bird.

This is why birds genetically bred for high production most often don't have good feather quality...they were bred for being genetically predisposed to be producing when other birds are having a more natural hormone cycle that allows for adequate feather replacement. Sex link birds won't be the ones with good feather quality and your best layer in the flock can often be the bird with the scantiest feathering most of the year.

When the hormones lower, the proteins and calcium in the blood supply and stored in the body will be diverted to feather regrowth. The proteins they receive in a balanced ration will be adequate for this as well, so adding more proteins will not hasten feather regrowth or make a chicken do both laying and regrowing of feathers. The system is just a bit more complex than nutrient supply when speaking of molting.

That is why I hardly ever tweak a balanced ration UP on proteins and calcium now...I've found that it makes no difference whether you do or whether you don't..so why do it? Just added money and effort and the molt will still take as long as it takes and the eggs will still come along when they return to laying.

Now, if your ration is nutrient deficient that is a whole other matter and of course you need to provide adequate nutrition for a bird to perform regular system function...that's a given.

The only reason I ferment the feeds to improve proteins is because I was tired of the proteins I was feeding falling out behind the chicken on the coop floor. What's the use in that? If I could feed less of my feed because the feed nutrients were actually being absorbed, it was a win/win situation for me. It doesn't actually change the protein amounts, just their usability and in such a way change the actual protein efficiency...allowing me to drop total amounts fed.

I don't know if any of that makes any sense but I'm trying to explain that a balanced ration is adequate for when birds are producing and also when they are in molt, but you cannot force a chicken to lay and molt simply by increasing proteins.

You can, however, keep them in a more climate controlled setting, leave on the lights and feed them high soy protein feeds that will increase the levels of their reproductive hormones and use a production breed and this will get you the most eggs out of her for 2 years of her life that she can possibly lay on a daily basis before she is burnt out, ragged, and pretty much spent...that's about the only way I know of for forcing chickens to lay at a higher level when they are molting. If they live through it, they will make a nice little pet until they die from the poor health created by their former life.

 

[wlhtx]

Sex link birds won't be the ones with good feather quality and your best layer in the flock can often be the bird with the scantiest feathering most of the year.

That's the thing, Bee. I have 3 sex links that are 28 weeks old. 28 weeks. One of them laid for a little while back in late July-early August, then she stopped. The other two have NEVER laid an egg. Heck, they have barely reddened up in the face or started growing combs. Now, they hit POL right about the time our temps really spiked here in TX. I've been patient with them because I wasn't really in a rush for them to start laying, and I get it that they probably didn't feel like it with two consecutive months of 100 degree days. But 28 weeks and no eggs from a production bird?

It can't be that my food is lacking in nutrients. I feed them either grower or layer (I've switched back and forth a couple times), with scratch also mixed in sometimes. I have gone slme days without feeding them FF, but that is because they free range all day every day and, frankly, I was a little curious if that would work. They get table scraps. They do not look ragged or skinny. In fact, the sex link that did lay for awhile is one of my prettier birds. Very glossy beetle-green sheen to her black feathers. But NO EGGS! I was fine with letting them be slow starters, but this slow? I'm a little flabbergasted.

And now everyone's molting...