FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[lazy gardener]

I ferment my chick feed. If the multi flock you've bought is marked that it is ok for chicks 0 - 8 weeks old (and it should be around 20 - 22% protein, not 28% protein!) then it would be fine. Initially, for the first week, I buzz it in my blender to be sure the crumbles are small enough for the babies. But, if you're fermenting, that shouldn't be necessary. The best time to expose them to sod to boost their immune systems is during the first 2 weeks. I always wait until they're eating their regular feed well, (know where the feed dish is, use it well, and have full crops regularly). Then, I give them the sod. Be sure it's sod that has not been exposed to insecticides/herbicides, and that any grass is clipped short. If it doesn't have any grit sized particles in the soil, be sure to supply chick grit.

 

[aart]

I realize that this questions had probably been answered,
but I can't wade thru this massive thread so will just ask it again and hope that one of the experienced sages would humor me to answer it again.

Can the fermented feed get too fermented?
If so, what are the signs and could it cause any harm to young chicks?

I've been wetting crumble to feed chicks, to ensure hydration in freezing weather,
but realized that it is fermenting........
......I think it is anyway, definitely smells a little 'spicy'.

 

[Beekissed]

I can't answer as to the science of too fermented as it was pointed out recently that if the feed ferments to the degree that all the carbs are consumed and converted, then the feed is "spent", though I can't imagine where the nutrition would go...evaporate? And there was no information provided on just when or how long that would take in the fermentation process, so that information is as yet unknown. Kassaundra ferments whole grains in a huge trash can and never reports any issues with her grains sitting for too long in that big of a container.

All I can tell you that a reasonable ferment of 2-3 wks in a 5 gal. bucket~which is about as long as I have fermented a bucket at one time~seems to feed out just like the feed only fermented for one day. They eat it the same, they grow on it the same and none is wasted. That goes for feeding it to chicks as well...I've been feeding it long and strong for the past 3 yrs now to chicks and adult birds alike and I've seen no change in the good results I've always gotten.

 

[aart]

Thanks Bee....it should be OK then.

Am just mixing up enough for a couple days at a time, but leaving a bit of the mix in the container......
......so I guess I have a decent culture going and will keep on with it.

 

[hennible]

I can't answer as to the science of too fermented as it was pointed out recently that if the feed ferments to the degree that all the carbs are consumed and converted, then the feed is "spent", though I can't imagine where the nutrition would go...evaporate?  And there was no information provided on just when or how long that would take in the fermentation process, so that information is as yet unknown.  Kassaundra ferments whole grains in a huge trash can and never reports any issues with her grains sitting for too long in that big of a container. 

All I can tell you that a reasonable ferment of 2-3 wks in a 5 gal. bucket~which is about as long as I have fermented a bucket at one time~seems to feed out just like the feed only fermented for one day.  They eat it the same, they grow on it the same and none is wasted.  That goes for feeding it to chicks as well...I've been feeding it long and strong for the past 3 yrs now to chicks and adult birds alike and I've seen no change in the good results I've always gotten. 

I'm not sure ( didn't look anything up ) but with fermented pickles or sauerkraut there are nearly no calories left they all get converted by the bacteria into vitamins etc...

Anyone ever feed their birds scobies? The fungal growths from kamboutcha? ( pardon my spelling )

 

[glib]

I can't answer as to the science of too fermented as it was pointed out recently that if the feed ferments to the degree that all the carbs are consumed and converted, then the feed is "spent", though I can't imagine where the nutrition would go...evaporate? And there was no information provided on just when or how long that would take in the fermentation process, so that information is as yet unknown. Kassaundra ferments whole grains in a huge trash can and never reports any issues with her grains sitting for too long in that big of a container.

All I can tell you that a reasonable ferment of 2-3 wks in a 5 gal. bucket~which is about as long as I have fermented a bucket at one time~seems to feed out just like the feed only fermented for one day. They eat it the same, they grow on it the same and none is wasted. That goes for feeding it to chicks as well...I've been feeding it long and strong for the past 3 yrs now to chicks and adult birds alike and I've seen no change in the good results I've always gotten.

It does evaporate, in the form of CO2. It reminds me that the energy content of fermented feed should be measurable by measuring CO2 degassing. That does not include the early increase in AVAILABLE calories, due to the bacteria fermenting out enzyme blocking proteins.

 

[hennible]

Ah hah! Neat.

 

[aart]

Quote: So the nutrition can be used up by the bacteria, who convert it to CO2?
So longer ferment is not harmful but may be less nutritious than a 'newer' ferment?

 

[Beekissed]

Not necessarily. No one has determined at this time what "longer" means....for instance, how long? Some of the studies I found showed the longer the ferment, the more increase in amino acids, the more increase in available nutrients....and the study was showing the difference between grains fermented 1-2 days compared to grains fermented 4-5 days. I don't have that link any longer, though it's on this thread somewhere. My PC crashed and I lost all those study links.

Until someone can show me the data where that was measured and showed a steady decrease in nutrients after X days of fermentation in a bucket, I have to go with that earlier information.

 

[glib]

Not necessarily. No one has determined at this time what "longer" means....for instance, how long? Some of the studies I found showed the longer the ferment, the more increase in amino acids, the more increase in available nutrients....and the study was showing the difference between grains fermented 1-2 days compared to grains fermented 4-5 days. I don't have that link any longer, though it's on this thread somewhere. My PC crashed and I lost all those study links.

Until someone can show me the data where that was measured and showed a steady decrease in nutrients after X days of fermentation in a bucket, I have to go with that earlier information.

If you want to focus solely on proteins, they do become more available initially (amazingly, even turning toxins into absorbable amino acids), but bacterial fermentation also degasses N from protein and amino acid breakdown. Typically a compost pile loses half its nitrogen, but any foul odor is produced by nitrogenous compounds which come perforce from proteins. Long time scale (that is, more than 4 days)? yes.